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  • Someone needs to call Harrold ISD and ask how their armed teacher program is doing!

    Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:41pm EDT

    (Reuters) - A Texas school district will let teachers bring guns to class this fall, the district's superintendent said on Friday, in what experts said appeared to be a first in the United States.

    The board of the small rural Harrold Independent School District unanimously approved the plan and parents have not objected, said the district's superintendent, David Thweatt.

    School experts backed Thweatt's claim that Harrold, a system of about 110 students 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth, may be the first to let teachers bring guns to the classroom.

    Thweatt said it is a matter of safety.

    "We have a lock-down situation, we have cameras, but the question we had to answer is, 'What if somebody gets in? What are we going to do?" he said. "It's just common sense."

    Teachers who wish to bring guns will have to be certified to carry a concealed handgun in Texas and get crisis training and permission from school officials, he said.

    Recent school shootings in the United States have prompted some calls for school officials to allow students and teachers to carry legally concealed weapons into classrooms.

    The U.S. Congress once barred guns at schools nationwide, but the U.S. Supreme Court struck the law down, although state and local communities could adopt their own laws. Texas bars guns at schools without the school's permission.




    One year later:
    WICHITA FALLS — One year ago, David Thweatt made a decision so controversial and groundbreaking the story about it sped around the world.

    The superintendent of the isolated Harrold Independent School District, about 30 miles northwest of here, made history last August when he and his school board decided to allow select teachers and staff members at the 110-student school to carry guns on campus — a first for Texas and the nation.

    For Thweatt and his board, the decision was pure mathematics.

    The school, which sits in the middle of a prairie, was too far from law enforcement for police to come in time to fend off would-be attackers. The students and staff would be safer if on-site, trained staff members were equipped to handle a crisis at a moment’s notice, they decided.

    Thweatt had already installed a $100,000 state-of-the-art security system in the school. Now, arming certain unnamed school staff members by allowing them to strap a firearm under their clothing was the final flourish.

    In the year since that historic decision, a gun was never brandished or fired at the school. There were no problems, Thweatt said.

    However, one week after school began, police busted a methamphetamine lab set up in an abandoned house that sat 50 feet from the school property.

    A deputy had peered inside and “saw something in the walls and windows and called for backup,” Thweatt said. “They made it to the abandoned house in 15 minutes. We had figured it would take 18 to 20 minutes in a typical situation.”

    Had that been an armed intruder at his school, response time would have been too slow.

    “We’re the first responders. We have to be,” Thweatt said. “We don’t have 5 minutes. We don’t have 10 minutes. We would have had 20 minutes of hell” if attackers had targeted the school.

    Harrold students, who grew up on ranches and in the middle of the North Texas gun culture, were unperturbed by the school district’s new gun policy.

    “The kids just laughed about it,” Thweatt said.


    Thweatt himself is the son of a retired minister/missionary/teacher in Abilene and a 1978 graduate of Abilene High School and Hardin-Simmons University.

    Too small for athletics, Thweatt spent his time at Abilene High focused on his studies, particularly interested in journalism.

    He wrote music and played guitar in a Christian band on weekends and was active in his father’s nondenominational Abilene Fellowship ministry.

    Thweatt drove a school bus for the Abilene ISD and occasionally worked as a substitute teacher to help fund his education, graduating in 1983.

    In Harrold, media attention was fierce all year. He talked to reporters from as far away as Ireland and New Zealand; he participated on more than a dozen talk shows. The story continues to spread; recently he saw a write-up in a Jerusalem newspaper. Only Finland and Switzerland reporters ignored the story; they already have high gun ownership rates, he said.

    “I had a lot of interviews from kids and college kids,” he said. “They needed to learn. I’m an educator,” said Thweatt, who is opinionated but patient in interviews.

    “Would you stick a sign at a school that says, ‘No guns on this property’? Why wouldn’t you? It invites nasty people to come,” he said. “That’s what you’ve done to every public school in the nation. That’s why there were no shootings until Columbine. It’s turned into a dad-gum shoot fest.”

    Thweatt took calls from “just a handful” of Texas districts considering the same policy, but he wouldn’t say if any other districts had modeled Harrold’s M.O.

    According to Barbara Williams with the Texas Association of School Boards, Harrold remains the only Texas school district with a guns-on-campus policy.

    “We’re not aware of any others,” she said.

    However, when Harrold made its groundbreaking decision one year ago, she watched the story go as far as Malaysia. She was even called by the Dr. Phil show, who asked her to help plan a show on the topic because they were so fascinated by it. She refused.

    To her, it was so obvious as to be a non-issue. Dr. Phil, who claims to be a Texan, should know that, she said.

    “This is Texas. I have a magnet on my refrigerator of the state with a plastic gun glued to it that says, ‘We don’t call 9-1-1.’ We find that funny in Texas,” she said.

    When a London reporter asked Thweatt to explain why so many kooks go into schools looking for a body count, Thweatt said he couldn’t explain such a devolution of society, but he did know a simple way to stop it — the same solution he chose for Harrold ISD.

    “Good guys with guns — good,” he said. “Bad guys with guns — bad.”
    "Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey

    Comment


    • ^ that is the school I was referring to.
      "It's another burrito, it's a cold Lone Star in my hand!"

      Comment


      • i pulled this from an article on wfaa

        "The gunman in the Connecticut shooting rampage committed suicide as first responders closed in..."

        just like all the other coward school shooters as soon as someone else shows up with a gun they get afraid and it's over.. but a first responder does not have to be a cop. it can be one of the other teachers in the school or one of the staff. if it's no secret that there are people with guns at a school the cowards who shoot them up will stop. seems like everyone of them were sniveling little pussies who would rather attack an innocent group of people instead of someone who can fight back. not saying that just because someone has a chl & a gun that the gunman will stop.. at least you have a chance to protect yourself and others. a chance that will never be there for any teacher or staff as long as we have "gun free zones"

        Comment


        • Does anybody else speculate that he went to an elementary school because these options have been somewhat fortified:
          1. College campus
          2. Movie theaters
          3. Army bases
          etc.

          Also...key here is whoever said you don't let the parent of an auststic kid have guns unsecured...
          2004 Z06 Commemorative Ed.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by mschmoyer View Post
            Does anybody else speculate that he went to an elementary school because these options have been somewhat fortified:
            1. College campus
            2. Movie theaters
            3. Army bases
            etc.

            Also...key here is whoever said you don't let the parent of an auststic kid have guns unsecured...
            Autistic kids have nothing to do with being "allowed" to have guns. It is all about the owners being responsible.
            I don't like Republicans, but I really FUCKING hate Democrats.


            Sex with an Asian woman is great, but 30 minutes later you're horny again.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
              How would you enforce that?
              Identify - if somebody is deemed a threat by a mental health official or councilor, then the person becomes temporarily unable to buy firearm because they are deemed temporarily mentally unfit (remember that box you click yes in) for 2 years or court approval.

              Evaluate - A court appointed mental health professional / profiler is brought on board so they can make an independent evaluation of the person's intent to harm society. This finalizes the temporary unfit for purchase procedure. That evaluation is made available to leos and placed in some sort of database. Finally the person is classified as possibly armed and dangerous proceed with caution so random traffic stops dont become a bad situation

              Preventative - 2 local police detectives and one of the health professionals make a polite introduction to the household and discuss the danger to others assessment. The discussion will include that the individual shouldnt have access to firearms, and that the firearms should have trigger locks, be placed in safes, and and have the code changed so that the individual doesnt have access to them.

              If the weapons are not being stored in a safe place on the first visit, the detectives a make a follow up the next day to insure those weapons have become unavailable to the individual, If not then they have to ticket and/or seize the weapons. Anything seized isn't permanent. unless things turn bad, and weapons maybe turned back over to the rightful owners if the detectives verify they have met the safety conditions.

              awareness - The local police will advise the the targets of the threat evaluation that they should stay vigilant towards every bodies actions and should act accordingly.

              The key is very little changes to gun control laws. While it changes client/patient confidentiality so that an individual can be verified and identified, and hopefully prevent any situations. Its not a perfect system but it beats what exists right now, which is nothing
              Last edited by John -- '02 HAWK; 12-16-2012, 09:15 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by grove rat View Post
                i pulled this from an article on wfaa

                "The gunman in the Connecticut shooting rampage committed suicide as first responders closed in..."

                just like all the other coward school shooters as soon as someone else shows up with a gun they get afraid and it's over.. but a first responder does not have to be a cop. it can be one of the other teachers in the school or one of the staff. if it's no secret that there are people with guns at a school the cowards who shoot them up will stop. seems like everyone of them were sniveling little pussies who would rather attack an innocent group of people instead of someone who can fight back. not saying that just because someone has a chl & a gun that the gunman will stop.. at least you have a chance to protect yourself and others. a chance that will never be there for any teacher or staff as long as we have "gun free zones"
                Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) on Sunday said he wished the principal of Sandy Hook Elementary had been armed so she could have protected the school when a gunman burst in and started spraying bullets.

                “I wish to God she had had an M4 in her office locked up so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands, when she takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids,” Gohmert said on “Fox News Sunday.”

                The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, has been credited with running into the hallway toward the shooter once the gunfire sounded at the Newtown, Conn. school. Twenty-six people, including Hochsprung and 20 children, were shot dead.

                With a renewed nationwide debate over gun control in the wake of the tragedy, Gohmert said “every mass killing of more than three people in recent history has been in a place where guns were prohibited, except for one…they know no one will be armed.”

                Asked by host Chris Wallace why the average person needs access to “weapons created for law enforcement,” Gohmert said it goes back to the country’s founding.

                “For the reason that George Washington said, a free people should be an armed people,” Gohmert said. “It ensures against the tyranny of the government if they know that the biggest army is the American people, then you don’t have the tyranny that came from King George.”

                Gohmert asked, “once you start drawing the line, where do you stop?”


                "Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey

                Comment


                • Right. These weapons weren't bought by or owned by the person who used them. How do you prevent someone who didn't buy the weapon from using it at the point of sale? And keep in mind, I have a right to privacy and to be secure in my home and my possessions. How are you going to enforce me locking it up without violating my rights? What if I don't want to let a detective walk through my house? And how are you going to pay for all of these extra cops that have to visit every house?

                  Edit: And how are you going to seize my personal, private property, in my home, because I didn't lock it up to your standards? Think it out. Not everyone is going to open their homes and say "Yes officer, please, come in, rummage through my home and take my weapons with you when you go. By all means." No, some of us know our rights and anyone without a warrant, aren't getting in
                  I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by John -- '02 HAWK View Post
                    Identify - if somebody is deemed a threat by a mental health official or councilor, then the person becomes temporarily unable to buy firearm because they are deemed temporarily mentally unfit (remember that box you click yes in) for 2 years or court approval.

                    Evaluate - A court appointed mental health professional / profiler is brought on board so they can make an independent evaluation of the person's intent to harm society. This finalizes the temporary unfit for purchase procedure. That evaluation is made available to leos and placed in some sort of database. Finally the person is classified as possibly armed and dangerous proceed with caution so random traffic stops dont become a bad situation

                    Preventative - 2 local police detectives and one of the health professionals make a polite introduction to the household and discuss the danger to others assessment. The discussion will include that the individual shouldnt have access to firearms, and that the firearms should have trigger locks, be placed in safes, and and have the code changed so that the individual doesnt have access to them.

                    If the weapons are not being stored in a safe place on the first visit, the detectives a make a follow up the next day to insure those weapons have become unavailable to the individual, If not then they have to ticket and/or seize the weapons. Anything seized isn't permanent. unless things turn bad, and weapons maybe turned back over to the rightful owners if the detectives verify they have met the safety conditions.

                    awareness - The local police will advise the the targets of the threat evaluation that they should stay vigilant towards every bodies actions and should act accordingly.

                    The key is very little changes to gun control laws. While it changes client/patient confidentiality so that an individual can be verified and identified, and hopefully prevent any situations. Its not a perfect system but it beats what exists right now, which is nothing
                    Sounds like a required national firearms registration would be required.

                    Comment


                    • And be unconstitutional as hell.
                      I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

                      Comment


                      • And probably cause a lot of blood spilled.
                        I don't like Republicans, but I really FUCKING hate Democrats.


                        Sex with an Asian woman is great, but 30 minutes later you're horny again.

                        Comment


                        • Had to put this here too.

                          Interesting:
                          Originally posted by John Lott, Economist
                          “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by John -- '02 HAWK View Post
                            Identify - if somebody is deemed a threat by a mental health official or councilor, then the person becomes temporarily unable to buy firearm because they are deemed temporarily mentally unfit (remember that box you click yes in) for 2 years or court approval.

                            Evaluate - A court appointed mental health professional / profiler is brought on board so they can make an independent evaluation of the person's intent to harm society. This finalizes the temporary unfit for purchase procedure. That evaluation is made available to leos and placed in some sort of database. Finally the person is classified as possibly armed and dangerous proceed with caution so random traffic stops dont become a bad situation

                            Preventative - 2 local police detectives and one of the health professionals make a polite introduction to the household and discuss the danger to others assessment. The discussion will include that the individual shouldnt have access to firearms, and that the firearms should have trigger locks, be placed in safes, and and have the code changed so that the individual doesnt have access to them.

                            If the weapons are not being stored in a safe place on the first visit, the detectives a make a follow up the next day to insure those weapons have become unavailable to the individual, If not then they have to ticket and/or seize the weapons. Anything seized isn't permanent. unless things turn bad, and weapons maybe turned back over to the rightful owners if the detectives verify they have met the safety conditions.

                            awareness - The local police will advise the the targets of the threat evaluation that they should stay vigilant towards every bodies actions and should act accordingly.

                            The key is very little changes to gun control laws. While it changes client/patient confidentiality so that an individual can be verified and identified, and hopefully prevent any situations. Its not a perfect system but it beats what exists right now, which is nothing
                            no thanks, Hitler..err, John.
                            May God give us strength and courage in the time of our darkest hours.
                            Semper Fi

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jester View Post
                              no thanks, Hitler..err, John.
                              I was doing my best from going reducto-ad-Hilterum
                              I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

                              Comment


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