Gun Control Solutions

[slow06]

Me: When these types of guns are banned, ones that are not banned will be used in their place. Then you will want to ban them also. So let’s talk facts, not feelings, real, indisputable facts from the FBI Uniform Crime Data. According to their data for 2011, 323 people were murdered with rifles. 728 people were murdered with fists and feet. 1694 were stabbed. More people were murdered with a club or hammer, 496, than with rifles. Murder rates have been steadily going down. You are basing your judgment on perception and emotion, nothing more.

A potential for danger? I guess you should stay away from ladders (24,972 people died from falls) and swimming pools (3,517 people accidentally drown). You have the potential to die while using them. I wouldn’t drive either (36,219 died in motor vehicle accidents). And do not drink alcohol (24,518 people died from consuming too much). These stats are courtesy of the Centers for Disease Control.

I will not “agree to disagree”.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams

The only reason I wouldn't argue using this data is because at some point they are going to notice that handgun murders are in the 6,000's.

Still a good refute against an AWB though...

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Frost, your mental fortitude may have protected you from not committing suicide but plenty of other vets werent as strong and are committing suicide at rates faster than their civilian counterparts

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/us/suicides-eclipse-war-deaths-for-us-troops.html?_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-rieckhoff/military-suicide-rates_b_1922693.html

sounds like reason you ultimately dont like it is because you may have been one of the ones effected by what I proposed at one time.

Here again here is my challenge to those dont like this come up with your own solution to address mental health and availability of firearms to those individuals (and do it with in a week). Because in 2013 the popular alternative is most likely an AWB , a 'hi cap' mag ban, and possibly a ban on 'military' cal ammo sales to civilians.

[Forever_frost]

Right, because we've seen horrible shit and you civilians seem to either treat us like ticking time bombs who need to be locked away or children who need our rights taken away. I guarantee you you come to my door and try to take my property from me, you're going to find out exactly what I was trained to do. I will not harm anyone and I don't do offensive strikes but defensive? Try me.

Actually, I'm still classified as severely disabled due to PTSD, and Post Concussive Disorder. How about this. What right are you willing to allow me to take from you? Do I get to walk up to you, take your car, your house and your bank account because you MAY use it in a way that could injure others? And what other rights are you willing to license? What other rights are you demanding have mental evals? Do you know how many people commit suicide from verbal bullying? Surely you don't need freedom of speech.

How about how many people have been killed because they have a right to privacy and were hiding something? Can't have that either.

Are you going to be reimbursing me for the property you take? Because that's actually in the Constitution. How are you going to pay for these cops and shrinks? How are you going to pay for the lawsuits from the slander of you running your head to the community about something that is covered under patient confidentiality?

[big_tiger]

What high powered rifles are these idiots talking about? When was the last time someone was mowed down with a Barrett? We're talking about civilian rifles that fire once, and only fire a round that is slightly larger than a .22

I never really knew what high powered meant. Wiki says it's an pretty much semi-auto rifles; no larger than .35 cal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Power_Rifle

[Jester]

Frost, your mental fortitude may have protected you from not committing suicide but plenty of other vets werent as strong and are committing suicide at rates faster than their civilian counterparts
.

Mostly due to the fact that the meds they are put on have a side effect of suicide ideation. That is why i tried to off myself. I would go into see the shrink and tell her i was suicidal cuz of the meds.....she would up the dose thinking that would help......it pushed me to kill myself.
The vets are following doctors orders for these meds and it is killing them, when in all reality what they really need is some damned good weed and a serious vacation.

[reo]

Mostly due to the fact that the meds they are put on have a side effect of suicide ideation. That is why i tried to off myself. I would go into see the shrink and tell her i was suicidal cuz of the meds.....she would up the dose thinking that would help......it pushed me to kill myself.
The vets are following doctors orders for these meds and it is killing them, when in all reality what they really need is some damned good weed and a serious vacation.

Have several friends going through that shit right now. One of them has been on so many different meds it's unreal, and it has made him even worse than when he came back from Afghanistan. The VA did nothing to help me out, and has continued to screw over a majority of the guys I served with. I could rant about this issue all day.

-Eric

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Actually, I'm still classified as severely disabled due to PTSD, and Post Concussive Disorder. How about this. What right are you willing to allow me to take from you? Do I get to walk up to you, take your car, your house and your bank account because you MAY use it in a way that could injure others? And what other rights are you willing to license? What other rights are you demanding have mental evals? Do you know how many people commit suicide from verbal bullying? Surely you don't need freedom of speech.

So are you a threat to society? were you ever a threat to society? If no then none of what I proposed would have happened. No body would have advised you that having a firearm easily available to you is not a good thing and that you should probably consider your well being over your safety, and you may want to store the weapons at someplace that isnt within minutes of your houshold so a wrongful impulse doesnt impact the well being of everybody.

You see that advisement didnt take your weapons, it didnt take any rights away, nobody is taking your bank, your car, or your livelihood, and it may inspire you to look after your well being. just because a police officer talks to you doesnt mean bad shit has to happen.

I suggested the the temporary seizure as way to motivate the household into taking care of their own. But if somebody is that negligent that after they have been advised of the threat to society and they dont take care of it what is society to do at that point, just wait for another shooting?

[bubbaearl]

i would love to take any one of these fools who dont like semi automatic gun and drop them in the middle of a few 300lb wild hogs with a single shot gun. fucking morons have no idea what they are for. try reloading to get more than one fucking coyote in a pack that just made a meal of your new 400 dollar calf.
every person i know like that is scared shitless and think disarming everyone will make them safe. they're a fucking victim period.

[Jester]

i would love to take any one of these fools who dont like semi automatic gun and drop them in the middle of a few 300lb wild hogs with a single shot gun. fucking morons have no idea what they are for. try reloading to get more than one fucking coyote in a pack that just made a meal of your new 400 dollar calf.
every person i know like that is scared shitless and think disarming everyone will make them safe. they're a fucking victim period.

exactly

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Mostly due to the fact that the meds they are put on have a side effect of suicide ideation.

Its a side effect for some but not for all, and I will say not even most. I think the psychological impact of going from combat and structured living to unstructured civilian living is one of the biggest impacts. While a discussion mental health is important I think the more pressing situation is addressing how it relates to firearms and what should be done before the morons get a chance to pass a permanent AWB, hicap mag ban, and a possible ban on 'military' cal ammo and weapon sales to civilians.

[futant]

Just curious John , have you ever had any experience talking to a shrink ?
You do know most are not real doctors right ?

I ask you this not because the rest of your so called ideas are fucking stupid, but because all of them are based on this being reliable.
To which , virtually everyone in the US knows they are not , or we wouldn't call them shrinks.
Hope that helps you learn yourself to go and tread on a different groups rights.
Good luck with those failed lines of reasoning

[Jester]

Just curious John , have you ever had any experience talking to a shrink ?
You do know most are not real doctors right ?

I ask you this not because the rest of your so called ideas are fucking stupid, but because all of them are based on this being reliable.
To which , virtually everyone in the US knows they are not , or we wouldn't call them shrinks.
Hope that helps you learn yourself to go and tread on a different groups rights.
Good luck with those failed lines of reasoning

[Forever_frost]

Mostly due to the fact that the meds they are put on have a side effect of suicide ideation. That is why i tried to off myself. I would go into see the shrink and tell her i was suicidal cuz of the meds.....she would up the dose thinking that would help......it pushed me to kill myself.
The vets are following doctors orders for these meds and it is killing them, when in all reality what they really need is some damned good weed and a serious vacation.

The depakote the shrinks put me on initially made me violent, angry and then massively depressed. Considered eating my .500

[Forever_frost]

So are you a threat to society? were you ever a threat to society? If no then none of what I proposed would have happened. No body would have advised you that having a firearm easily available to you is not a good thing and that you should probably consider your well being over your safety, and you may want to store the weapons at someplace that isnt within minutes of your houshold so a wrongful impulse doesnt impact the well being of everybody.

You see that advisement didnt take your weapons, it didnt take any rights away, nobody is taking your bank, your car, or your livelihood, and it may inspire you to look after your well being. just because a police officer talks to you doesnt mean bad shit has to happen.

I suggested the the temporary seizure as way to motivate the household into taking care of their own. But if somebody is that negligent that after they have been advised of the threat to society and they dont take care of it what is society to do at that point, just wait for another shooting?

Actually, I had 3 shrinks tell me to get rid of my weapons so I stopped seeing them. There are bad shrinks who will diagnose you with exactly what the VA tells them to. You have vets coming back the VA refuses to diagnose with PTSD and some that due to prescribed medications, are being locked in mental installations no longer allowed to defend themselves with weapons they bought.

You didn't answer me. What are you willing to hand over to the police because you MAY injure someone with? How about your car? Surely you don't need that. Do you know how many people get killed by autos every year?

You suggest a seizure of my property by someone who I don't authorize to take it. So tell me. During this time that you seize my weapons and my household is broken into an my son and wife injured because now, I am unable to defend them, do I hold you personally liable? Are you willing to sign a contract that says because you stole my equipment from me, you are liable for damages or injuries sustained that could have been prevented by the weapons you stole?

[Forever_frost]

Its a side effect for some but not for all, and I will say not even most. I think the psychological impact of going from combat and structured living to unstructured civilian living is one of the biggest impacts. While a discussion mental health is important I think the more pressing situation is addressing how it relates to firearms and what should be done before the morons get a chance to pass a permanent AWB, hicap mag ban, and a possible ban on 'military' cal ammo and weapon sales to civilians.

Do you have a degree in psychology? Do you have PTSD? Have you ever even been in the military? IF not, you have no idea what the fuck you're saying. Read some of these drugs. Suicidal depression is a possible side effect on a lot of them. I am almost done with my masters in psychology and using the DSM 5, I can diagnose you right now, as a danger to yourself and others, merely by your posts. And could testify to that and I could even give you a set of psych tests that would back me up 100%