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  • #31
    Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
    Same with the shuttles. If there had been another shuttle to use to replace the ones mothballed, then there's not an issue.

    Point is removing gear from service without a replacement.
    That point can be laid at the feet of Congress and NASA for actions taken before the Obama was even a candidate.

    It was GWB that CORRECTLY ordered the retirement of the shuttle fleet based on the Columbia Accident Investigation Board's (CAIB) recommendations. The board stated that flying the shuttle longer than they had prescribed would require a complete refurbishment of each air frame to have them re-certified. This was way to expensive to be cost effective so GW took their other recommendation and retired the shuttles. GW knew that there would be a gap of at least three years before a replacement craft could be ready. We could have had one even sooner but GW and Congress insisted on reusing as much shuttle equipment as possible. This actually led to many delays because the Aries I rocket, based on shuttle boosters, has a multitude of unforeseen technical hurdles that could not be easily overcome. We could have been flying a lot soon if GW had simply insisted that we use a man rated version of the Atlas V that already had a good flight history...

    By the time Obama got to office, Congress had gutted the Orion program's budget, pushing its soonest flight back to 2015. The Constellation space capsule was delayed over and over again because of design changes to the Aries I rocket that kept forcing the capsule to be downsized. A ship that was originally meant to carry seven people was down to four and estimated operational costs grew to the point that it would be just as expensive as a space shuttle flight (1.2billion per flight). The moon program was already in a shambles.

    IMO, Obama did what he had to do and got it mostly right. He kept GW's schedule for retiring the shuttles (though they added one extra flight). He took GW's COTS commercial supply spacecraft program made a commercial manned program that was modeled after it. It was fortunate for us that Elon Musk had designed his cargo craft to also carry people.

    What Obama wanted to do was to create a "flexible path" program that would build an infrastructure that would let us go anywhere in the inner solar system. That would be Mars, the Moon, asteroids, Venus, etc... A lot of people called BS on it because it didn't specifically name the Moon or Mars as destinations. That kinda missed the point because a landing the moon or mars requires very different equipment. Congress wasn't willing to fund a lander for anything. Obama figured that if we can just get there we would develop landers as a follow on project.

    So Obama compromised with several Republicans and Democrats which resulted in the Space Launch System (SLS) that is currently under construction. Commercial manned spaceflight will continue as planned but now the Constellation capsule was resurrected for exploratory missions. Congress also forced NASA to spend tens of billions on the new SLS and once again reuse as much space shuttle architecture as possible, including the solid rocket boosters (forced on NASA by Orin Hatch because those rockets are built in his state).

    By the time Obama leaves office, we won't have ONE manned launch system. We will have at least THREE. The CST100/Atlas V from Boeing, the Manned version of Dragon/Falcon 9 from SpaceX, and Constellation/SLS from NASA/Lockheed Martin. And a mini shuttle from Sierra Nevada is still looking like a real possibility.

    NASA is now solidifying plans for a spacecraft that will be used for Lunar and Asteroid expeditions with add ons for Mars transport in the future.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Slowhand View Post
      Fuckin' Barry!

      I really wish they were balls..

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      • #33
        Vs costly maintenance and repairs just to cover a few years, I don't see a major issue.

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        • #34
          I read on a few websites that the Big E was going to be deactivated in 2012 probably 3 years ago, well the plan was.

          I still think it is a shame CV-6 and now CVN-65 are to be razor blades and washer machines. I understand the reason -65 can't be saved. 8 reactors means a lot of holes have to be cut out of it. I better buy me another Tamiya 1/350 scale Enterprise while they still produce them.
          Some cars and a bike...

          Some say... they have been raced, some a lot

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
            I am aware of when it entered service as well as the projected service life. She shouldn't have been left in service that long but she was. Point is, you don't pull a weapon until you have something to replace it with. If we had another carrier on the line to maintain readiness, then I'd not have an issue. Same with the shuttles. If there had been another shuttle to use to replace the ones mothballed, then there's not an issue.

            Point is removing gear from service without a replacement.


            So we need exactly 10 carriers to be "ready?" You say there is no replacement when there are NINE other vessels that are more modern and capable already in service. Dude, seriously let it go.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
              Actually, the frame is. With the Chinese using our tech and jumping ahead without doing the research to get there, they went from the POS jets they had to a remake of the F22. Add in subs, and some of the best tech we have in their hands, we aren't in a place to reduce anything defense related.
              It looks like an F22, but the tech is at least a decade behind. The engines are a joke comparatively, and its hilarious that they clone from a Hollywood model, not an actual F22. Take a close look at the pic. Hehehe.

              Originally posted by talisman View Post
              Just because they make something that looks like something we built doesn't mean it has comparable tech.
              This.

              Another thing that folks are missing on here is comparing our defense spending to other countries in the same dollar. A dollar in Russia is more like 4-5, and China is closer to 10.
              sigpic18 F150 Supercrew - daily
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              13 DIB Premium GT, M6, Track Pack, Glass Roof, Nav, Recaros - Sold
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              01 TJ - new toy - Sold
              65 F100 (460 + C6) - Sold

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              • #37
                The Enterprise name is going to be reactivated on a future ship. Its an old ship and needed to be retired. Just as the Missouri and Iowa were retired. They made those into static displays, but the Big E is fucking HUGE. There's just no place to park it permenatly.

                I wish they went the route of the Oriskany and would sink it as an Artificial Reef, but that is just my opinion. I can understand that its value as material is worth a bit more.

                Enterprise will live on, just not on an aging 50+ year old ship.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Slowhand View Post
                  Damn, you lucky bastard! I had to participate in a circle jerk to get my upgrade!
                  Can't bitch about it if it was voluntary.
                  How do we forget ourselves? How do we forget our minds?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jedi View Post
                    The Enterprise name is going to be reactivated on a future ship. Its an old ship and needed to be retired. Just as the Missouri and Iowa were retired. They made those into static displays, but the Big E is fucking HUGE. There's just no place to park it permenatly.

                    I wish they went the route of the Oriskany and would sink it as an Artificial Reef, but that is just my opinion. I can understand that its value as material is worth a bit more.

                    Enterprise will live on, just not on an aging 50+ year old ship.
                    They'd have to cut out the reactor and all related items, not economically feasible, methinks.

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                    • #40
                      Since yall are talking about the chinese carrier. One interesting thing was that china bought it thru a shell company supposedly going to turn it into a floating casino.

                      Part of the deal was that under no circumstances was it to be fitted out as a war ship. Never trust those commies

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Slammy View Post
                        Since yall are talking about the chinese carrier. One interesting thing was that china bought it thru a shell company supposedly going to turn it into a floating casino.

                        Part of the deal was that under no circumstances was it to be fitted out as a war ship. Never trust those commies
                        Spent 14 million $ on it. Its a very nice looking "hotel". Thats the Kiev itself converted.
                        Some cars and a bike...

                        Some say... they have been raced, some a lot

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                        • #42
                          To answer the question earlier....

                          Spain, Italy has 2 aircraft carriers

                          Russian only one

                          China bought there's and its the only one for now.

                          I am sure a lot you you already know about this site. But they show a lot information
                          http://www.globalfirepower.com/

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by racrguy View Post
                            They'd have to cut out the reactor and all related items, not economically feasible, methinks.
                            Yes, by removing the reactor it becomes a paperweight. Makes sinking it easier haha, but the costs to button it back up and then sink it far outweigh the material value.

                            The Oriskany CV-34 was a steam turbine powered ship so removal of its systems were no big deal- the asbestoes and other materials were the challenge but was not anywhere as drastic as what the Enterprise will go through

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                            • #44
                              You know, this wouldnt' be nearly as big of a problem if we mass produced the hypersonic missiles and had an orbital defense platform
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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
                                You know, this wouldnt' be nearly as big of a problem if we mass produced the hypersonic missiles and had an orbital defense platform
                                And put it in orbit with what? Russia would whoop our ass in that kind of space race right now and it's our own fault.

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