VP Debate tonight - Ryan v. Biden

[Forever_frost]

Willie,
If your ideas work, what business have you created and how many do you employ? Afterall, you know exactly how to work this and are willing to pay minimum wage people 15-20 an hour so, how are your profits? And you're paying comprehensive insurance for those workers and every one of them are represented by a union, right?

[Vertnut]

You just spouted off a shitload of liberal anti-capitalist ideology and didn't address a single thing I posted. This is why you don't understand economics. Because you don't want to.

It's pretty typical liberal drivel, is what it is. The country can go down the shitter for all they care, as long is we all do it together.

[CJ]

Lots of reasons.
Before CEO's made 25-30 times what their average worker made. Now it's 3000 with all their officers making comparable amounts.
The cost of living in america is higher so even base wages have to be higher.
Many companies spend money on infrastructure that isn't needed soully for the tax writeoff and to get rid of the money.
There are others but IMO those are the biggies.
IMO this has been the plan for the last 30 years, break the middle class and go back to a feudal system with poor/slaves and rich kings ruling them. The Middle class has been hammered from all directions.

You just spouted off a shitload of liberal anti-capitalist ideology and didn't address a single thing I posted. This is why you don't understand economics. Because you don't want to.

[4eyedwillie]

You would dramatically increase the price of goods here in the US. The US consumer loses. You fix the problem, not half ass patch it with a tax. Your solution is "since we can't complete with them, we'll just tax the product." When you should be asking "why can't be compete with them?"

Lots of reasons.
Before CEO's made 25-30 times what their average worker made. Now it's 3000 with all their officers making comparable amounts.
The cost of living in america is higher so even base wages have to be higher.
Many companies spend money on infrastructure that isn't needed soully for the tax writeoff and to get rid of the money.
There are others but IMO those are the biggies.
IMO this has been the plan for the last 30 years, break the middle class and go back to a feudal system with poor/slaves and rich kings ruling them. The Middle class has been hammered from all directions.

[CJ]

You actually think a company wouldn't bring their manufacturing back if it wasn't cheaper here? With the added tariffs it would be cheaper to manufacture here. They are damn sure not going to pull out of the US.

You would dramatically increase the price of goods here in the US. The US consumer loses. You fix the problem, not half ass patch it with a tax. Your solution is "since we can't complete with them, we'll just tax the product." When you should be asking "why can't we compete with them?" Tax breaks for production in the US is a far better idea than taxing the shit out of imports or exporting production.

[4eyedwillie]

You need to understand how economics and business work. It just isn't that simple. You can not tax something into existence, you tax things into extinction.

You actually think a company wouldn't bring their manufacturing back if it wasn't cheaper here? With the added tariffs it would be cheaper to manufacture here. They are damn sure not going to pull out of the US.

[CJ]

Most of your post I agree with. But I wasn't talking about fast food jobs. In another thread I said that we need to tariff the shit out of American companies that manufacture overseas then bring goods back in to sell. This will bring back manufacturing jobs and those being higher skilled will pay more. Companies will do it because thet will not want to lose out on the largest economy in the world.

You need to understand how economics and business work. It just isn't that simple. You can not tax something into existence, you tax things into extinction.

[4eyedwillie]

From reading your posts about upping the $8/9 wage earners to $15 is not doing shit for the middle class other than pushing it down into poverty.


accept.

Most of your post I agree with. But I wasn't talking about fast food jobs. In another thread I said that we need to tariff the shit out of American companies that manufacture overseas then bring goods back in to sell. This will bring back manufacturing jobs and those being higher skilled will pay more. Companies will do it because thet will not want to lose out on the largest economy in the world.

[KBScobravert]

When did I say government spending? The Middle class is who I'm talking about.There is not enough spending that can be cut to make a real difference without consumer spending going up to increase revenue.

From reading your posts about upping the $8/9 wage earners to $15 is not doing shit for the middle class other than pushing it down into poverty.

Would you pay $5 tomorrow at McDonalds for what a $2.5 hamburger costs today? No, you wouldn't. You would think it is absurd. Sale lost, revenue lost, now that once $8 an hour burger flipper who you increased their wage to $15 just got laid off. Neither the poverty line nor the middle class are buying those $5 burgers.

I was told a long time ago that the world always needs another ditch digger. If you (not directed at you but if the shoe fits..) don't like your income level, do something about to make yourself more marketable. Pitching a tent on Wall Street doesn't prove you are worth more. It only proves you are an idiot and worth probably less than what you were being paid before you quit your job to go camping.

Don't like making $8 an hour build a time line for yourself and go back to high school. Look at your life choices and evaluate where you went wrong. 90% of problems that prevent people from earning a better living come from POOR LIFE CHOICES. Got a DUI/DWI? = Poor life choice. Failed a drug test? = Poor life choice. Don't have a high school diploma? = Poor life choice. Have such shitty credit that companies are afraid to take a risk on you? Poor life choice. Criminal history holding you back? = Poor life choice. You are not in the career field you want to be in? = Poor life choice. You get the picture?

I work with people everyday that make 6 figures plus and a lot of them would be lucky if I let them cut my grass back in the states. However, I applaud them for taking a risk, living and working in an environment that pays them handsomely for their hardships. What they do with that money and experience they have been afforded chalks up to the life choices in their personal time lines. I have employees that get terminated (by my dept) daily for.....you guessed it their poor life choices.

Pattern is, don't blame society for your current situation. It all rests on each individual. That is called personal accountability. Something most of the Dem voters fail to accept.

[Forever_frost]

Absolutely right nay. If your remove logic, reason and an understanding of supply and demand and basic economics.

[naynay]

4eyeyedwillie ftmfw!

4EW>FF&DFWM

[347Mike]

When did I say government spending? The Middle class is who I'm talking about.
There is not enough spending that can be cut to make a real difference without consumer spending going up to increase revenue.

Doesn't matter WHO it is really it is still a confidence issue. People will not spend more until they have confidence in the economy, a steady income, no fear of getting laid off etc.

[4eyedwillie]

Keeping reading.



Congratulations, that is part of Romneys plan, well, atleast the part about getting everyone back to work and paying taxes again.



It is not the only way. Rhetorical question: You think people should get paid MORE than what their "skills" qualify them for? Please tell me what your "hindsight" of endless knowledge foresees happening after you line these $8 an hour workers with $15 pay? Do you know the snow ball affect it will have on everything else?

You are mentioning two different things here. The 'ONLY' way is NOT to keep spending money. It is to have consumer confidence again. If it was all about spending then all the Quantitative Easing BS would be doing wonders right now, it is not. Do you even know what the QE's were?

It is as clear as day you don't know anything on this topic...

When did I say government spending? The Middle class is who I'm talking about.
There is not enough spending that can be cut to make a real difference without consumer spending going up to increase revenue.

[Forever_frost]

The only way the deficit is going to go down is to get everyone working again at a decent livable wage. NOT $8 or $9 a hour but $15 or more. That is the only way. The lower wages only line the company owners pockets and they are saving it in overseas accounts not spending it. A middle class worker will spend most of his money and get the economy going again. The money has to be going around and round not sitting in the bank. That is the ONLY way we are going to pull out.

You really don't understand how real life economy works do you? You up the wage to 15 or more and businesses up their prices on goods and services and those who worked their way to that level are now at the entry level once more. So you have people who were doing fairly well, now at the base line, all their time and labor wiped out AND prices suddenly increase to cover the added expenses of the increase of costs, people also get laid off to maintain a profit.

Define the middle class. And how are they able to spend this money, without every company, mom and pop and international corporation, increasing their prices on everything from gas to bread to water bills?

[347Mike]

I haven't seen one. But my read on it is that it's not 250 billion and no more deficit spending it's just 250 billion off of the 1 trillion so still 750 billion increase plus interest a year increase.

Keeping reading.

The only way the deficit is going to go down is to get everyone working again at a decent livable wage.

Congratulations, that is part of Romneys plan, well, atleast the part about getting everyone back to work and paying taxes again.

NOT $8 or $9 a hour but $15 or more. That is the only way. The lower wages only line the company owners pockets and they are saving it in overseas accounts not spending it. A middle class worker will spend most of his money and get the economy going again. The money has to be going around and round not sitting in the bank. That is the ONLY way we are going to pull out.

It is not the only way. Rhetorical question: You think people should get paid MORE than what their "skills" qualify them for? Please tell me what your "hindsight" of endless knowledge foresees happening after you line these $8 an hour workers with $15 pay? Do you know the snow ball affect it will have on everything else?

You are mentioning two different things here. The 'ONLY' way is NOT to keep spending money. It is to have consumer confidence again. If it was all about spending then all the Quantitative Easing BS would be doing wonders right now, it is not. Do you even know what the QE's were?

It is as clear as day you don't know anything on this topic...