Don't ask Don't Tell is dead...

[SlowLX]

In the infantry, we have unscented baby wipes

Me too but I was good at finding things in the field so a bottle of water for a luxurious field shower ain't no big deal.

[SlowLX]

Ever been to NTC, Iraq, Afghanistan? Some nice camps in later two places, but a lot of open showers and crappers - NTC as well.

The handful of times I got a real shower in fallujah it was in a shower trailer which had private stalls. On my op we made our own private area for water bottle showers and This was almost 6 years ago. I agree with dadt however you guys could be using better arguments than I don't want a queer staring at me when that only applies to one branch on a more than occasional basis.

[Forever_frost]

A) you're old, even the majority of marine grunts have barracks with private showers now
B) I don't know about the rangers but when marine arty goes to the field our showers consist of a bottle or two of water every week or so.
The only place I'd concede on the group shower argument is the navy but they're all Peter puffers anyways.

In the infantry, we have unscented baby wipes

[Forever_frost]

Just in case you want to read the report for yourself

http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130%28secure-hires%29.pdf

I don't need game, I'm retired.

[Forever_frost]

We do not recommend segregated housing for gay or lesbian Service members.
We believe this would do more harm than good for unit cohesion, create a climate of
stigmatization and isolation, and be impossible to enforce or administer unless Service
members are required to disclose their sexual orientation. On the other hand, we are
sensitive to concerns expressed to us by commanders that disputes may arise between gay
and straight Service members assigned to live together involving, at least to some extent,
sexual orientation. Commanders should have the flexibility, on a case-by-case basis, to
addresses those concerns in the interests of maintaining morale, good order, and discipline.

Here again, we are convinced that separate bathroom facilities would do more harm
than good to unit cohesion and would be impracticable to administer and enforce. Concerns
about showers and bathrooms are based on a stereotype—that gay men and lesbians will
behave in an inappropriate or predatory manner in these situations. As one gay former
Service member told us, to fit in, co-exist, and conform to social norms, gay men have
learned to avoid making heterosexuals feel uncomfortable or threatened in situation such
as this. The reality is that people of different sexual orientation use shower and bathroom
facilities together every day in hundreds of thousands of college dorms, college and high
school gyms, professional sports locker rooms, police and fire stations, and athletic clubs.
Accordingly, we recommend the Department of Defense expressly prohibit the
designation of separate facilities based on sexual orientation, except that commanders
retain the authority to adjudicate requests for accommodation of privacy concerns on an
individualized, case-by-case basis in the interest of maintaining morale, good order, and
discipline, and consistent with performance of mission. It should also be recognized that
commanders already have the tools—from counseling, to non-judicial punishment, to
UCMJ prosecution—to deal with misbehavior in both living quarters and bathing situations,
whether the person who engages in the misconduct is gay or straight.

Release from Service Commitments
Some Service members told us they would seek to be released from their service
commitments if Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell were repealed, based on their opposition to gay men
and lesbians in the military or to homosexuality in general. We recommend against a policy
allowing release from service commitments and voluntary discharge of Service members
based on opposition to living or serving with gay or lesbian Service members after a repeal
of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. The U.S. military is an all-volunteer force, but once Service members
join the Military Services, they are not guaranteed a certain legal or policy landscape for
the duration of their commitment.393 At present, Service members serve alongside others of
different backgrounds, beliefs, races, and religions, reflective of American society as a whole.
This already includes gay men and lesbians, and most Service members recognize that. It
would be inappropriate, unworkable, and unfair to others to adopt a policy that permits
release based on an assertion of incompatibility with or intolerance for gay men and lesbians.
Under existing regulations, Service members may request to be voluntarily discharged under
a military department secretary’s plenary authority. The military department Secretary
has the discretion whether to grant such requests, and only after determining the early
separation to be in the best interest of the Service. Such discretionary discharges should
only be permitted when they meet the standard of being in the best interest of the Service.

[564826]

if a gay man can shower with a straight man, why can't I shower with that hot MP chick with big tits? Same thing, right?

That's an easy one, that's because you don't have game!!!!

[davbrucas]

Lawsuits will surely be filed...what a great big cluster-fuck.

[Forever_frost]

If I were, It would've been common knowledge on here a long time ago. The reason I'm passionate is, my Dad is gay. We can have a whole other discussion about that if you want to, but it will make this thread pretty messy, and I think you're just stirring the pot anyway.


I hadn't considered married gays. Ultimately, congress could vote to legalize gay marriage nationally, which may happen, or the Supreme Court may get involved. I think this repeal will end up pushing that national dialogue a lot further than a lot of folks expected it to go in the near future.


I think you'll see the same number of gays checking out straights as you see now. You and I can't control who looks at us, and how. Once more, the gays that let it get in the way of their job won't likely last too long. I said earlier that the straight troops that are uncomfortable with it should be given the option of honorable discharge.

The DoD already said this isn't an option. According to the report that they filed, no new barracks or showers were to be created, allowing service members who disagree with homosexuality to leave would not be permitted, basically, everyone would have to suck it up. However the question should be, if a gay man can shower with a straight man, why can't I shower with that hot MP chick with big tits? Same thing, right?

[davbrucas]

LOL...showers were overrated anyway. A bottle of water to wash your cock, your ass and your armpits.

[SlowLX]

Yeah, you REMF'ers had it pretty easy.

A) you're old, even the majority of marine grunts have barracks with private showers now
B) I don't know about the rangers but when marine arty goes to the field our showers consist of a bottle or two of water every week or so.
The only place I'd concede on the group shower argument is the navy but they're all Peter puffers anyways.

[davbrucas]

You win this round, Trebek, lmao! I think I'm out on the rest of this thread.

Dont leave...threads are no fun when everyone agrees.

[GSRGuy94]

I take it you don't believe in "majority rules" either? Cause you know, gays only actually represent 3% of the total US population. You know, people with such views actually disgust me more than the gays. No offense intended though.

Majority does rule, to an extent. But just because there are more of one type of person than another, doesn't necessarily mean that;

1) The majority has the right to shit all over the other groups.
2) Everybody in that majority of people feels the same way.

[YALE]

Ouch...yup. Just instigating interesting conversation. I guess you call yourself Yale because Turd was already taken? :biggrin:

You win this round, Trebek, lmao! I think I'm out on the rest of this thread.

[ceyko]

Ever been to NTC, Iraq, Afghanistan? Some nice camps in later two places, but a lot of open showers and crappers - NTC as well.

[davbrucas]

I Dunno about most of fawkers but outside of bootcamp and the occasional temporary housing I had a private shitter / shower shared by 2 other people.

Yeah, you REMF'ers had it pretty easy.