Don't ask Don't Tell is dead...

[SlowLX]

I Dunno about most of fawkers but outside of bootcamp and the occasional temporary housing I had a private shitter / shower shared by 2 other people.

[ceyko]

I think you'll see the same number of gays checking out straights as you see now. You and I can't control who looks at us, and how. Once more, the gays that let it get in the way of their job won't likely last too long. I said earlier that the straight troops that are uncomfortable with it should be given the option of honorable discharge.

Wow. I could not disagree more, but I can't find it in me to type up a counter argument.

[GhostTX]

I hadn't considered married gays. Ultimately, congress could vote to legalize gay marriage nationally, which may happen, or the Supreme Court may get involved. I think this repeal will end up pushing that national dialogue a lot further than a lot of folks expected it to go in the near future.

As I alluded to, that's a big can of worms trampling over states rights.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

Yeah, so I did not quote anything for the point of what you thought I did. I literally was saying good job on breaking it down to point out the aspects that would bother me and the "why is it okay for gay dudes to stare at my dick, but I can't stare at some chick's tits" type of view.

I just did not want to quote your whole post.

Sorry I thought you meant the other thing.

I think you'll see the same number of gays checking out straights as you see now. You and I can't control who looks at us, and how. Once more, the gays that let it get in the way of their job won't likely last too long. I said earlier that the straight troops that are uncomfortable with it should be given the option of honorable discharge.

Yeah, you will see that. But are we all butt ass naked when they do it? Is human dignity dead? You should ask your dad if he thinks its fair to just let them all be together like that, as though they were the opposite sex. My guess is that he has had his feelings stepped on all his life, and now wouldn't wish it upon others. Typical liberal, its ok to trample everyone else's feelings and rights, as long as some microscopic minority gets theirs. I take it you don't believe in "majority rules" either? Cause you know, gays only actually represent 3% of the total US population. You know, people with such views actually disgust me more than the gays. No offense intended though.

[564826]

Food for thought, if Man and Woman choose to be gay are Man and Woman choosing to be Straight?

[Vertnut]

Ouch...yup. Just instigating interesting conversation. I guess you call yourself Yale because Turd was already taken? :biggrin:

zzzzziiiiiiinnnnnnnnggggggg!

[davbrucas]

Ouch...yup. Just instigating interesting conversation. I guess you call yourself Yale because Turd was already taken? :biggrin:

[YALE]

If you were gay, would you admit it on here? Equal rights for gays? As in they should get legislation to change how they are treated solely because of their sexual preference? That's ridiculous and obscene. If you want to be gay, so what...but keep it to your damn self. If it's only about the right to be gay, then why the hell make it a public matter? Be gay in your bedroom...be a normal citizen otherwise.

If I were, It would've been common knowledge on here a long time ago. The reason I'm passionate is, my Dad is gay. We can have a whole other discussion about that if you want to, but it will make this thread pretty messy, and I think you're just stirring the pot anyway.

That's my thinking as well. Further, do you want a "known" gay leering at you in the shower? If women/men are allowed to have separate showers because this (basically), what's to say the same for straight/gay with both sexes? Heck, are even gays gonna want other gays seeing them shower?

Further, what about housing? Some states allow gay-marriage, and some don't. What's going to happen with married gay couples at bases in state that don't recognize gay marriage? The fed going to mandate over the state's laws? Force them to recognize the couple? There's all kinds of legal snafu's coming down this pipe.

I hadn't considered married gays. Ultimately, congress could vote to legalize gay marriage nationally, which may happen, or the Supreme Court may get involved. I think this repeal will end up pushing that national dialogue a lot further than a lot of folks expected it to go in the near future.

Ok, so if you absolutely had to shower/change/whatever with a bunch of guys, and there was the possibility that one was gay. Would you rather A. Not know anything about it and just have that hope that none of them might be eyeballing your shaft, or B. Know for a fact that one (or more) of them was gay, and that odds are they were in fact eyeballing your shaft. Me? I'd rather not know. I mean if I absolutely must be nude around another man, I'd like to at least have the hope that he might not be gay. He may do his best to try to hide it, but in his mind he's still looking at you like:

But I feel like you still didn't really address my issue. Cause if we are forced to accept that this is not indeed some kind of lifestyle choice, then wouldn't you agree that a woman has every right to not be looked at by a man when she is nude? Why is being a peeping tom against the law? Should we repeal that now too? And, if a woman has every right to not have some man looking at her while she showers, then certainly a man has that right, when it comes to a woman. Right? That's only fair.

So if those to things are true, and gays really can't help but be gay, then why should women and men have to put up with some gay who is clearly going to be looking at them, at these times? It goes back to the same principle about the opposite sexes having rights to not be ogled by each other. So now what do you arrive at? Segregation. Now how do you think all the little fagots of the world are going to handle that? Are they going to be cool with it? Or will they play the civil rights card, yet again? Thus, trampling the rights of others, so that they can feel a little bit better about themselves. So I stand by my point that to repeal this last little hope of dignity for the straight people in the military, is wrong. For those who look at it my way, gays shouldn't even be allowed in the military, due to this issue. To protect the rights of those that aren't gay.

Yes I was on the old board but I hadn't visited it in well over a year.

I think you'll see the same number of gays checking out straights as you see now. You and I can't control who looks at us, and how. Once more, the gays that let it get in the way of their job won't likely last too long. I said earlier that the straight troops that are uncomfortable with it should be given the option of honorable discharge.

[ceyko]

Ok umm... perhaps we could worry more about the actual point?? Rather than semantics? Doesn't matter who I was on some other site. I only actually knew 2 people from over there anyway, and I seldom popped up and made posts. Though I did lurk a quite a bit more.

Yeah, so I did not quote anything for the point of what you thought I did. I literally was saying good job on breaking it down to point out the aspects that would bother me and the "why is it okay for gay dudes to stare at my dick, but I can't stare at some chick's tits" type of view.

I just did not want to quote your whole post.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

Ok umm... perhaps we could worry more about the actual point?? Rather than semantics? Doesn't matter who I was on some other site. I only actually knew 2 people from over there anyway, and I seldom popped up and made posts. Though I did lurk a quite a bit more. I know yall were like a whole big crowd that all knew each other, but I wasn't one of them.

[ceyko]

Yes I was on the old board but I hadn't visited it in well over a year.

Good job breaking it down a little further...

[SMEGMA STENCH]

First of all, everyone agrees that gays are already in the military, right? Sounds like every person in the military has most likely already showered with, and slept in the same room with a gay. WTF does this change about that?

SIDE BAR: Were you on the old board?

Ok, so if you absolutely had to shower/change/whatever with a bunch of guys, and there was the possibility that one was gay. Would you rather A. Not know anything about it and just have that hope that none of them might be eyeballing your shaft, or B. Know for a fact that one (or more) of them was gay, and that odds are they were in fact eyeballing your shaft. Me? I'd rather not know. I mean if I absolutely must be nude around another man, I'd like to at least have the hope that he might not be gay. He may do his best to try to hide it, but in his mind he's still looking at you like:

But I feel like you still didn't really address my issue. Cause if we are forced to accept that this is not indeed some kind of lifestyle choice, then wouldn't you agree that a woman has every right to not be looked at by a man when she is nude? Why is being a peeping tom against the law? Should we repeal that now too? And, if a woman has every right to not have some man looking at her while she showers, then certainly a man has that right, when it comes to a woman. Right? That's only fair.

So if those to things are true, and gays really can't help but be gay, then why should women and men have to put up with some gay who is clearly going to be looking at them, at these times? It goes back to the same principle about the opposite sexes having rights to not be ogled by each other. So now what do you arrive at? Segregation. Now how do you think all the little fagots of the world are going to handle that? Are they going to be cool with it? Or will they play the civil rights card, yet again? Thus, trampling the rights of others, so that they can feel a little bit better about themselves. So I stand by my point that to repeal this last little hope of dignity for the straight people in the military, is wrong. For those who look at it my way, gays shouldn't even be allowed in the military, due to this issue. To protect the rights of those that aren't gay.

Yes I was on the old board but I hadn't visited it in well over a year.

[GhostTX]

Straight people are already showering and bunking with gays.

But they dont know it...now they will and if the fags have the right to be open about it, we have the right to say that we dont want them in the same shower as us...and now fags will have more confidence to be open about it and throw it in our faces that we cannot say anything about it.
You sure seem to be championing the fags cause...did you join under DADT?

That's my thinking as well. Further, do you want a "known" gay leering at you in the shower? If women/men are allowed to have separate showers because this (basically), what's to say the same for straight/gay with both sexes? Heck, are even gays gonna want other gays seeing them shower?

Further, what about housing? Some states allow gay-marriage, and some don't. What's going to happen with married gay couples at bases in state that don't recognize gay marriage? The fed going to mandate over the state's laws? Force them to recognize the couple? There's all kinds of legal snafu's coming down this pipe.

[davbrucas]

If you were gay, would you admit it on here? Equal rights for gays? As in they should get legislation to change how they are treated solely because of their sexual preference? That's ridiculous and obscene. If you want to be gay, so what...but keep it to your damn self. If it's only about the right to be gay, then why the hell make it a public matter? Be gay in your bedroom...be a normal citizen otherwise.

[YALE]

But they dont know it...now they will and if the fags have the right to be open about it, we have the right to say that we dont want them in the same shower as us...and now fags will have more confidence to be open about it and throw it in our faces that we cannot say anything about it.
You sure seem to be championing the fags cause...did you join under DADT?

I'm not in the military, and I'm not gay, but I support equal rights for gays. Honestly, though, this discussion's going in circles. Those that are raising the same questions keep getting the same answers, so we may not ever see eye to eye. An aside: homophobia isn't the same thing as racism, but picking on gays for being gay makes any man a bully all the same.