Don't ask Don't Tell is dead...

[ceyko]

The handful of times I got a real shower in fallujah it was in a shower trailer which had private stalls. On my op we made our own private area for water bottle showers and This was almost 6 years ago. I agree with dadt however you guys could be using better arguments than I don't want a queer staring at me when that only applies to one branch on a more than occasional basis.

Yeah I was in-country several years ago myself and there were plenty of public and open situations.

I remember the showers in Kuwait, dividers but the curtains were gone. Standard drying/dressing outside the shower area

I was at Victory Base which is a shit ton nicer then Fallujah was at the time, the tent city had divided showers, you showered for 10-30 seconds hopped out for the next dude to get in. Butt naked the whole time.

K2 Uzbekistan, same situation

Can't remember which areas I spent some time at in Afghanistan, but was there a few days and same thing. (Transient air base between qatar/kuwait and K2)

NTC, open showers and shitters when I was there several times

Qatar, now everything was nice there

Bosnia, Hungary and that area I think was similar to K2 but I had off base housing.

I think I've been around enough bases to qualify my fucking argument in regards to showers. In the normal shower rotation times you wash balls, ass, crevices and hop out. Granted, you can be bashful and keep things concealed a little bit - but still I'd rather not have to worry about it. Hell, I'd rather not have to worry about two fags with each other either.

UCMJ is going to need some updates, that for damned sure.

[SlowLX]

Yeah I was in-country several years ago myself and there were plenty of public and open situations.

I remember the showers in Kuwait, dividers but the curtains were gone. Standard drying/dressing outside the shower area

I was at Victory Base which is a shit ton nicer then Fallujah was at the time, the tent city had divided showers, you showered for 10-30 seconds hopped out for the next dude to get in. Butt naked the whole time.

K2 Uzbekistan, same situation

Can't remember which areas I spent some time at in Afghanistan, but was there a few days and same thing. (Transient air base between qatar/kuwait and K2)

NTC, open showers and shitters when I was there several times

Qatar, now everything was nice there

Bosnia, Hungary and that area I think was similar to K2 but I had off base housing.

I think I've been around enough bases to qualify my fucking argument in regards to showers. In the normal shower rotation times you wash balls, ass, crevices and hop out. Granted, you can be bashful and keep things concealed a little bit - but still I'd rather not have to worry about it. Hell, I'd rather not have to worry about two fags with each other either.

UCMJ is going to need some updates, that for damned sure.

Good for you and maybe its just me, but after not showering for weeks and months at a time on top driving convoys up and down Iraq I wasn't concerned about some faggot staring at me. I had bigger issues at the moment.

Dozens of militaries have gotten thefuck over it in recent decades the us will be no different. If u worked around NATO forces in Bosnia and Afghanistan you probably already showered with few cock suckers without knowing it.even with dadt dead its not like rupaul is going to be enlisting. Chances are most will still try to stay under the radar.

[ceyko]

Good for you and maybe its just me, but after not showering for weeks and months at a time on top driving convoys up and down Iraq I wasn't concerned about some faggot staring at me. I had bigger issues at the moment.

I'll revert back to my other stance on hoping people with your opinion are actually right. Also, these things have a way of policing themselves in one way or another.

We'll see.

[SlowLX]

I'll revert back to my other stance on hoping people with your opinion are actually right. Also, these things have a way of policing themselves in one way or another.

We'll see.

I'm not against your beliefs about the issue I just think there are bigger concerns at hand. Such as the repercussions nationwide if the military recognizes gay unions down the road. Personally outside of combat mos's I just can't find it in me to care about some admin clerk who's biggest worry is if the guy next to him thinks he's cute.

[ceyko]

Yeah, I can agree to some of that. Another aspect is gays in leadership positions (NCOs and Officers). I know a specific story (I'm going to try to keep it short, so not a lot of details - but a chick I know told me this story.)

Dude was an E-6 or E-7, muscle bound dude and had a lot of respect from his troops. Played the part. After hours he was bottom bitch though or something and flaming.

Now, will gays still get the same respect in those roles? I know the old "Respect the rank, not the man." bullshit, but I know how I acted between NCOs I truly respected, liked and trusted and the ones that were morons and I just had to respect the rank.

Guess they'll have to just work that much harder...

[Lason]

Yeah, I can agree to some of that. Another aspect is gays in leadership positions (NCOs and Officers). I know a specific story (I'm going to try to keep it short, so not a lot of details - but a chick I know told me this story.)

Dude was an E-6 or E-7, muscle bound dude and had a lot of respect from his troops. Played the part. After hours he was bottom bitch though or something and flaming.

Now, will gays still get the same respect in those roles? I know the old "Respect the rank, not the man." bullshit, but I know how I acted between NCOs I truly respected, liked and trusted and the ones that were morons and I just had to respect the rank.

Guess they'll have to just work that much harder...

I respect you guys that served enough to not tell you who you should or should not respect but did it really matter what the guy did on his off hours, as long as it is legal? If no one found out, would anyone have said he was a bad leader?

I guess my biggest issue with this whole thing is not being able to understand why people are so worried about other's buisness outside of "work". If some dude loving to smoke pole could get people killed then I would be 110% against it but I just dont see why anyone cares. I have always been of the mindset of treat me with respect and Ill do the same. If they want to fuck toasters on their free time then who gives a shit as long as, in this case, they have your back in combat. As far as "some guy staring at my cock in the shower", you do realize gays are already in the military. Do you think now they are going to grab your junk and ramrod it into their ass because DADT has been repealled?

[davbrucas]

I respect you guys that served enough to not tell you who you should or should not respect but did it really matter what the guy did on his off hours? If no one found out, would anyone have said he was a bad leader?

I guess my biggest issue with this whole thing is not being able to understand why people are so worried about other's buisness outside of "work". If some dude loving to smoke pole could get people killed then I would be 110% against it but I just dont see why anyone cares. I have always been of the mindset of treat me with respect and Ill do the same. If they want to fuck toasters on their free time then who gives a shit as long as, in this case, they have your back in combat. As far as "some guy staring at my cock in the shower", you do realize gays are already in the military. Do you think now they are going to grab your junk and ramrod it into their ass because DADT has been repealled?

Nobody knew...that's the key point. Do you really think that soldiers would respect a leader that slurps sperm or gets his ass reamed nightly? Nope...

[Forever_frost]

Right, next to repeal bestiality, incest. and pedophilia because it doesn't matter what you do on your off time

[ceyko]

When I was enlisted, it was made clear you're never really off-duty.

[ceyko]

Do you think now they are going to grab your junk and ramrod it into their ass because DADT has been repealled?

Also, the point I was making is now those effective leaders MAY lose their effectiveness because they can admit what their preferences are and hell - they can even prance around if they want.

Understand that you're also dealing with 17-22 year old kids who make up a huge portion of our military. You may have been a prodigy at that age, but most are just set in their ways and idiots. (I certainly was, more so then I am now. )

My point is at 33 y/o I'm not going to ever respect a cock gobbler like I would a standard male heterosexual. I have to tolerate gay males in society, I don't have to respect them. It could be hard for young kids to even tolerate them.

[SlowLX]

Also, the point I was making is now those effective leaders MAY lose their effectiveness because they can admit what their preferences are and hell - they can even prance around if they want.

Understand that you're also dealing with 17-22 year old kids who make up a huge portion of our military. You may have been a prodigy at that age, but most are just set in their ways and idiots. (I certainly was, more so then I am now. )

My point is at 33 y/o I'm not going to ever respect a cock gobbler like I would a standard male heterosexual. I have to tolerate gay males in society, I don't have to respect them. It could be hard for young kids to even tolerate them.

This is the exact reason I believe dadt should remain inplace for combat mos's. Discipline is key for effective line companies and firing batteries.

[GSRGuy94]

So none of ya'll have gay friends?

[davbrucas]

So none of ya'll have gay friends?

In order for someone to be a friend, I have to have some things in common with them and to be able to respect them. I cannot respect a man that is homosexual and it has nothing to do with being afraid of anything. So no, I do not have any friends that are known homosexuals.

[GSRGuy94]

Have you ever been friends with somebody, and then found out they were gay?

[Lason]

Nobody knew...that's the key point. Do you really think that soldiers would respect a leader that slurps sperm or gets his ass reamed nightly? Nope...

Better to respect a guy with a foot fetish? Or whatabout a guy thats into S&M? Oh what about one of those people that likes to dress up like animals?

Where does it stop?

Right, next to repeal bestiality, incest. and pedophilia because it doesn't matter what you do on your off time

Smoking pole and breaking the law are completely different. Sorry for throwing that blanket statement out there. Ill correct it.