Update on Hasan

[CJ]

They wouldn't. But the question is, what do you do to a Soldier who refuses to shave?

Normally, you Art. 15 him and take his money and time. If he continues to refuse, you continue to Art. 15 him and build a packet to ultimately dishonorably discharge him and/or confine him.

But what do you do to a Soldier who is already confined and already under court martial to be dishonorably discharged, confined, and/or more? He's got nothing more to take away.

The first judge decided that it was legal to forcibly shave him. The appellate judge decided that such a decision was not the first judge's to make. His chain of command is likely going to say it's not within their authority as, to the best of my knowledge, it's not addressed in regulation. If they really, really want to shave him...it will need to be ordered by Hasan's commander.

And that's what I figured, there probably isn't any case law for it either. Meanwhile he makes an ass out of our bureaucratic system.

[exlude]

I'm trying to think what I'd do in this situation. I want to force shave him, but don't think force shaving him is worth marring my career.

Obviously, you call up legal first and get their opinion. But I bet they're just as clueless in this case as I am. They can't always give you cut and dry advice.

I sure as hell would be diligent about my Art. 15 paperwork to make sure he didn't get paid. Hopefully my senior commander would just tell him to shave him, that would make it easy, lol.

[CJ]

I'm trying to think what I'd do in this situation. I want to force shave him, but don't think force shaving him is worth marring my career.

Obviously, you call up legal first and get their opinion. But I bet they're just as clueless in this case as I am. They can't always give you cut and dry advice.

I sure as hell would be diligent about my Art. 15 paperwork to make sure he didn't get paid. Hopefully my senior commander would just tell him to shave him, that would make it easy, lol.

That's the problem with bureaucracy, no one knows what the fuck to do when someone tests them. A giant headless entity with no accountability.

[exlude]

Reading more into it, I believe the appellate court gave us our answer...

They didn't directly rule on whether or not Hasan can be forcibly shaved. They just said that the judge didn't have the authority to forcibly shave him and that such a decision would have to come from his chain of command. To me, that indirectly says that his commander can legally make the order.

But, he comes from the Army medical community which isn't exactly the most disciplined, Soldierly branch.

[CJ]

Reading more into it, I believe the appellate court gave us our answer...

They didn't directly rule on whether or not Hasan can be forcibly shaved. They just said that the judge didn't have the authority to forcibly shave him and that such a decision would have to come from his chain of command. To me, that indirectly says that his commander can legally make the order.

But, he comes from the Army medical community which isn't exactly the most disciplined, Soldierly branch.

It's just a cluster fuck. A judge does have the right to set forth a code of appearance in his courtroom. He could place Hassan in contempt indefinitely, but that doesn't help any of the victims get justice. The judge stepped up and took some action to resolve the situation and got reprimanded. It's just an example of a bureaucracy and how absurd it is.

[exlude]

And more to the point of this thread, it's already been ruled by two different courts that Hasan does not get a religious accommodation for his beard.

I agree with you CJ, but I think some things are being ironed out here that will set a good precedence for the future. I believe this could all have been settled had the commander just stepped up in the first place.

[CJ]

And more to the point of this thread, it's already been ruled by two different courts that Hasan does not get a religious accommodation for his beard.

I agree with you CJ, but I think some things are being ironed out here that will set a good precedence for the future. I believe this could all have been settled had the commander just stepped up in the first place.

No one wants to lead, bureaucracy.

I should make that a lyric in a song.

[dewayne6243]

Hasan has currently been discharged from his duties because he stands accused of murder and not because of his race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Nice copy and paste work, Google Boy, but don't know why exactly you chose that subsection to quote since it doesn't apply to this thread topic. Maybe your lack of comprehension of what you googled perhaps?

Why don't you invite him over to the doublewide and teach him some intelligence.

[The King]

This thread just got a little dumber with the arrival of duhwhine, and it was going so well. Such is the pity of public forums.

[Vertnut]

I guess you could say the thread has been "derailed"?

[The King]

I guess you could say the thread has been "derailed"?

Duhwhine isn't quite savvy enough or able to compose sentences effectively enough to derail anything. Nothing wrong with that, since someone has to play second (or in this case third) string in this forum. Politics is simply not a subject he knows anything about.

[Vertnut]

Duhwhine isn't quite savvy enough or able to compose sentences effectively enough to derail anything. Nothing wrong with that, since someone has to play second (or in this case third) string in this forum. Politics is simply not a subject he knows anything about.

It was a pun. Isn't he a train guy?

[Forever_frost]

FORT HOOD, Texas (AP) — More than three years after the deadly shooting rampage at Fort Hood, an Army psychiatrist may soon describe details of the terrifying attack for the first time, if he’s allowed to plead guilty to lesser charges.

Maj. Nidal Hasan would be required to describe his actions and answer questions about the Nov. 5, 2009, attack on the Texas Army post if the judge allows him to plead guilty to the lesser charges, as his attorneys have said he wants to do.

Any plea, which could happen at the next hearing in March, won’t stop the much-anticipated court-martial set to begin May 29. He faces the death penalty or life in prison without parole if convicted of 13 counts of premeditated murder.

Under military law, a judge can’t accept a guilty plea for charges that carry the death penalty. Hasan’s lawyers have said he is ready to plead guilty to charges of unpremeditated murder, which don’t carry a possible death sentence, as well as the 32 attempted premeditated murder charges he faces.

If the judge, Col. Tara Osborn, allows him to plead guilty, she will hold an inquiry in which Hasan must discuss the attack. If he says anything that isn’t consistent with what happened or indicates he isn’t truly acknowledging his guilt, the judge would stop the hearing and not accept his guilty plea, according to military law experts. He is not required to apologize or say that he is remorseful.

Some military law experts say it’s a legal strategy designed to gain jurors’ sympathy so that they might not sentence him to death if he’s convicted later.

“The judge has to make sure he’s pleading guilty willingly and that this isn’t a ploy,” Jeff Addicott, director of the Center for Terrorism Law at St. Mary’s University in San Antonio, said Friday.

A Senate report released in 2011 said the FBI missed warning signs about Hasan, alleging he had become an Islamic extremist and a “ticking time bomb” before the attack at Fort Hood. It’s unclear if Hasan would discuss his motivation, but the judge must determine if he is sincere in pleading guilty or is simply trying to avoid the death penalty, said Addicott, who is not involved in Hasan’s case.

Addicott said the judge will be even more thorough during the inquiry because Hasan is a psychiatrist who is “highly intelligent and knows how to manipulate human thinking.”

Witnesses have said that after lunch on Nov. 5, 2009, a gunman wearing an Army combat uniform shouted “Allahu Akbar!” – “God is great!” in Arabic – and opened fire in a crowded medical building where deploying soldiers get vaccines and other tests. He fired rapidly, pausing only to reload, even shooting at some soldiers as they hid under desks and fled the building, according to witnesses.

When it was over, investigators found 146 shell casings on the floor, another 68 outside the building and 177 unused rounds of ammunition in the gunman’s pockets. Authorities and several witnesses identified the gunman as Hasan, an American-born Muslim who was to deploy to Afghanistan soon.

Greg Rinckey, who formerly served in the Army JAG Corps and is not involved in Hasan’s case, said pleading guilty without a deal may signal to the judge that the government is being unreasonable by proceeding with a trial. He also said Hasan’s attorneys have few, if any, options for a defense.

“His attorneys know he’s going to be convicted at trial, so why not get some brownie points?” said Rinckey, a New York attorney who specializes in military law. “But once they admit to it, it’s harder to appeal.”

Hasan’s trial is expected to last through September. Prosecutors have nearly 300 witnesses, including a terrorism expert who will testify that Hasan is a homegrown terrorist. Among the mounds of evidence is a transcript of a telephone call between Hasan, while in jail, and Al-Jazeera in which he allegedly apologized for being part of “an illegal organization” – the U.S. Army. Prosecutors are expected to show emails that Hasan exchanged with Anwar al-Awlaki, a radical U.S.-born Islamic cleric killed in Yemen in 2011 by a U.S. drone strike.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/02/fort-hood-suspect-could-describe-terrifying-deadly-shooting-rampage-for-the-first-time/

[ceyko]

Screw accepting his plea.

[DON SVO]

Nothing would please me more than a sniper hitting him in the neck from 1/2 mile away as he rolls out of court in his wheelchair, rendering him a quadriplegic from the jaw down.