Update on Hasan

[racrguy]

They can take your life if you violate some of those clauses. Are you arguing morals or law here?

I'm arguing whether or not religions are a protected status, that's it.

I'm with Don and Mardyn in my opinion of him, and what he's doing.

[Vertnut]

Islam is a "minority religion", therefore, more protected, as are other "minorities".

[bcoop]

No other religion would be able to, during a court martial, be able to tell the judge "Not shaving, can't make me, fuck you." None. Especially one that only started growing his beard during the proceedings.

You can't say that with certainty, because it hasn't happened (to my knowledge).

You think we'd still be waiting for the case to start if he was Jewish or Catholic or anything BUT a pig fucking, pedophile worshiping Muslim?

There are many reasons the trial hasn't started. I don't think his religion has much of anything to do with any of it.


Before you go off on a tirade, I'm not sticking up for the piece of shit. He deserves to die a slow, painful death. Trials are slow processes. It's the defense attorney's job to delay things as long as possible. Beyond that, the first judge getting tossed has a lot to do with it as well.

[Forever_frost]

Actually, it happens quite a bit. Unless you get a shaving profile, you HAVE to shave. Have to. No discussion, you're going to do it. To refuse is a violation of the UCMJ and they can and will hold your ass down and shave you. It was done in Basic.

[bcoop]

Actually, it happens quite a bit. Unless you get a shaving profile, you HAVE to shave. Have to. No discussion, you're going to do it. To refuse is a violation of the UCMJ and they can and will hold your ass down and shave you. It was done in Basic.

We aren't talking about basic training. We are talking about court proceedings. So again, no. Not to my knowledge anyways.

[Forever_frost]

We aren't talking about basic training. We are talking about court proceedings. So again, no. Not to my knowledge anyways.

I'm saying the military can forcefully shave you at their discretion, choose your haircut, your mode of dress, everything. When you sign up or in this fucktard's case, get a commission, you grant the military the authority to do this. It would be nothing to hold his ass down and dry shave him. Nothing at all.

[exlude]

I've never heard of anyone being forcibly shaved and am honestly not sure if that's allowable by regulation. I know you can continue to Art. 15 the fuck out of them though.

[bcoop]

I'm saying the military can forcefully shave you at their discretion, choose your haircut, your mode of dress, everything.

That's not what you said, though. See below.

No other religion would be able to, during a court martial, be able to tell the judge "Not shaving, can't make me, fuck you."

The guy obviously has SOME right to keep his beard, in order for the new judge to overturn the order to shave and allow him to keep it. That whole deal was a stall tactic from the get go. He knew damn well what he was doing when he did it.

[bcoop]

I've never heard of anyone being forcibly shaved and am honestly not sure if that's allowable by regulation. I know you can continue to Art. 15 the fuck out of them though.

Nope. Not in the Constitution. Can't do it. It's Unconstitutional.




Sorry, Frost, that was a cheap shot. I'm still though.

[racrguy]

Islam is a "minority religion", therefore, more protected, as are other "minorities".

Yeah, except the law doesn't differentiate between minority/majority religions, nor does it differentiate between different sects. It just says "religion." Let's say you worked for a guy who's muslim, and you were one of the many sects of christianity. Even though you're a member of the majority religion here in the US, you're still as equally protected from discrimination as he would be should the tables be turned.

[Forever_frost]

Nope. Not in the Constitution. Can't do it. It's Unconstitutional.




Sorry, Frost, that was a cheap shot. I'm still though.

If you weren't under contract where you voluntarily sign off the majority of your rights, you'd be correct. He doesn't have a right to keep a beard. Doesn't. However this judge is allowing it to move things forward. He's already tried to plead guilty but the military law doesn't allow you to plead guilty to capital offenses.

Kill his ass. Him and that traitor Manning

[CJ]

I'm arguing whether or not religions are a protected status, that's it.

I'm with Don and Mardyn in my opinion of him, and what he's doing.

They are a protected status, but not if you're enlisted, you waive those rights as far as appearance code if I'm not mistaken. Anyone here want to clarify that?

[exlude]

They are a protected status, but not if you're enlisted, you waive those rights as far as appearance code if I'm not mistaken. Anyone here want to clarify that?

Unless it's otherwise specified in your contract (which rarely happens, and typically only for an absolutely needed skill set that can't be contracted), yes you are correct. You are bound to the appearance standards set forth in AR 670-1.

[CJ]

Unless it's otherwise specified in your contract (which rarely happens, and typically only for an absolutely needed skill set that can't be contracted), yes you are correct. You are bound to the appearance standards set forth in AR 670-1.

I would assume since he had no beard in any of his military photos his did not have the exception. And I really doubt they would make one.

[exlude]

They wouldn't. But the question is, what do you do to a Soldier who refuses to shave?

Normally, you Art. 15 him and take his money and time. If he continues to refuse, you continue to Art. 15 him and build a packet to ultimately dishonorably discharge him and/or confine him.

But what do you do to a Soldier who is already confined and already under court martial to be dishonorably discharged, confined, and/or more? He's got nothing more to take away.

The first judge decided that it was legal to forcibly shave him. The appellate judge decided that such a decision was not the first judge's to make. His chain of command is likely going to say it's not within their authority as, to the best of my knowledge, it's not addressed in regulation. If they really, really want to shave him...it will need to be ordered by Hasan's commander.