Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention

[Forever_frost]

Atheism doesn't assume anything. It is simply a stance on one singular topic. It is a lack of belief in a deity.

Actually, my experience (and that's the point of this right? Experiences with representatives of said groups) is that atheists are so caught up in the thought that they are masters of their own destiny and that they are in control, it's as if their religion puts them as gods themselves. And that's what atheism is. A religion. Don't believe me? Disagree with one. Won't hear anything contrary to their belief structure and can turn violent

[racrguy]

Outsider's perspective: This is where your attitude gets REALLY hard to embrace. Try respecting the idea that not every Christian is the epitome of what you hate about "Christians". They choose to believe in something that you don't, but they do still deserve a bit of respect. In fact, if they live the life that the bible tells them to, they're probably pretty decent people!

Christian's believe that they are god's children. Which would explain why they feel the need to ask him for guidance, and why he would help them.

In the bible it says plenty of times not to be a whiney little bitch who incessantly forces their faith on everyone, who ignores the problems in their life because "god will sort it out". Those are people who apparently didn't read the whole book, and instead took the parts that they wanted to and ran with it. There are a LOT of those people, but they would be just as pushy, ignorant, obtuse or foolish if it were the words of any other "god" that they were hiding behind.

I didn't say every Christian, I said many people. Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. If I told you that I had a giant purple people eater as an imaginary friend who had all the attributes of god and jesus (or any other deity), would you respect that belief, or would you think I was a bit off my rocker? I disagree with people who follow the bible being decent people. I think they're decent people in spite of what the bible tells them.

Anecdotal evidence below!

In my experience, the less religious a person is, the better they are, and the more religious the person, the more judgmental and assholish they are. For instance, a family I know believe in god, Jesus, heaven and hell. Some of the best people I know, and that is the extent of their belief. Once they are at that point can you REALLY call them Christian? I guess in a textbook definition sense of the word, yes, but they're just a small step from deism.

Nice try with the strawman though.

[racrguy]

Actually, my experience (and that's the point of this right? Experiences with representatives of said groups) is that atheists are so caught up in the thought that they are masters of their own destiny and that they are in control, it's as if their religion puts them as gods themselves. And that's what atheism is. A religion. Don't believe me? Disagree with one. Won't hear anything contrary to their belief structure and can turn violent

I lol'd. At all of this. Please provide some evidence that backs your claim of atheists turning violent when you disagree with them. In what I've seen in the news, it's the theists that turn violent.

[ThreeFingerPete]

It would seem that youre not taking into account that most of the best people I know wouldn't try to inundate you with their beliefs.

I didn't say every Christian, I said many people. Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. If I told you that I had a giant purple people eater as an imaginary friend who had all the attributes of god and jesus (or any other deity), would you respect that belief, or would you think I was a bit off my rocker? I disagree with people who follow the bible being decent people. I think they're decent people in spite of what the bible tells them.

Anecdotal evidence below!

In my experience, the less religious a person is, the better they are, and the more religious the person, the more judgmental and assholish they are. For instance, a family I know believe in god, Jesus, heaven and hell. Some of the best people I know, and that is the extent of their belief. Once they are at that point can you REALLY call them Christian? I guess in a textbook definition sense of the word, yes, but they're just a small step from deism.

Nice try with the strawman though.

[racrguy]

It would seem that youre not taking into account that most of the best people I know wouldn't try to inundate you with their beliefs.

Like I said, they're decent people in spite of what the bible tells them.

[Forever_frost]

I lol'd. At all of this. Please provide some evidence that backs your claim of atheists turning violent when you disagree with them. In what I've seen in the news, it's the theists that turn violent.

If I provide evidence, are you going to claim it's anecdotal or accept it as evidence?

[Maddhattter]

Actually, my experience (and that's the point of this right? Experiences with representatives of said groups) is that atheists are so caught up in the thought that they are masters of their own destiny and that they are in control, it's as if their religion puts them as gods themselves. And that's what atheism is. A religion. Don't believe me? Disagree with one. Won't hear anything contrary to their belief structure and can turn violent

Atheism is not a religion. There is no dogma, no ritual, nor tenets aside from the one common factor among all atheists, the lack of a belief in a deity.

There are atheistic religions, such as the raeliens, and some forms of hindu and buddism. So, no matter your personal experience nor your redefining what constitutes a religion, atheism fails all definitions of such.

The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

Also, atheism doesn't touch on the matter of predestination. Sam Harris, a neuroscientist, is an atheist who has argues against free will on many occasions, citing actual science to back up his claims. The topic of free will is, and likely will be for a long time, a widely debated topic.

Finally, violent behavior is neither a requirement of theism nor religion. As I've stated before, as atheists are a group of people that only need share a lack of belief in a god/gods, there is a wide variety. There are smart atheists, and there are stupid ones. There are polite ones and rude ones. There are pacifistic ones and there are violent ones. There are also theists that represent all the above groups.

[Forever_frost]

Atheism is not a religion. There is no dogma, no ritual, nor tenets aside from the one common factor among all. The lack of a belief in a deity is the only common factor.

There are atheistic religions, such as the raeliens, and some forms of hindu and buddism. So, no matter your personal experience nor your redefining what constitutes a religion, atheism fails all definitions of such.

The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

Also, atheism doesn't touch on the matter of predestination. Sam Harris, a neuroscientist, is an atheist who has argues against free will on many occasions, citing actual science to back up his claims. The topic of free will is, and likely will be for a long time, a widely debated topic.

Finally, violent behavior is neither a requirement of theism nor religion. As I've stated before, as atheists are a group of people that only need share a lack of belief in a god/gods, there is a wide variety. There are smart atheists, and there are stupid ones. There are polite ones and rude ones. There are pacifistic ones and there are violent ones. There are also theists that represent all the above groups.

Again, I mentioned experience with atheists. My experience. I thought that's what we were talking about. Want to see what atheists do to Christians if they have power?


China Jails House Church Christians; Suspends Prison Sentence Christian Lawyer
Tuesday, December 26, 2006 (12:00 am)

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By BosNewsLife News Center

BEIJING, CHINA (BosNewsLife) — Most, if not all, eight prominent house church Christians in China's eastern Zhejiang province prepared to spend Christmas behind bars Saturday, December 23, after they were sentenced to prison sentences of up to 3.5 years, fellow believers said.

The People's Court of Xiaoshan District in the provincial capital Hangzhou city sentenced the believers late Friday, December 22 after an "almost 12-hour marathon pre-Christmas trial," said religious rights group China Aid Association (CAA).

They were accused of inciting violent resistance to the law after they protested the government's destruction of a church. The seven men and one woman from Zhejiang were arrested after about 3,000 Christians in Xiaoshan, a prospering commercial suburb of the provincial capital Hangzhou, demonstrated against the demolition of their mega-church in July.

http://www.worthynews.com/1205-china-jails-house-church-christians-suspends-prison-sentence-christian-lawyer

[ThreeFingerPete]

Like I said, they're decent people in spite of what the bible tells them.

How much of the new testament have you thumbed through?

[racrguy]

If I provide evidence, are you going to claim it's anecdotal or accept it as evidence?

If it's anecdotal, then I'll say it is. If it's not, then I won't.

For instance if you use personal experience not verifiable by any trusted means, it's anecdotal. If there's a news story about it that can be verified and/or has been reported on by multiple news agencies, it's not anecdotal.

[Forever_frost]

Another interesting point: When was the last time you saw an atheist look at any religion and say "Hey, they're exercising their rights. Good on them." I can pull hundreds of lawsuits from atheists against usually Christians to have Christmas scenes removed, prayer removed from school, 10 commandments from courtrooms and so forth.

As far as it goes, why is it atheists seem driven...one would say religiously, to discredit anyone who believes? No, it's never "Hey dude, you believe a guy died on a chunk of wood for your sins. Good on you." No, it's "OMG! You believe in a flying purple monster! Let me tell you how stupid you are and your dearly held beliefs are."

[Forever_frost]

If it's anecdotal, then I'll say it is. If it's not, then I won't.

For instance if you use personal experience not verifiable by any trusted means, it's anecdotal. If there's a news story about it that can be verified and/or has been reported on by multiple news agencies, it's not anecdotal.

How about the government of China, atheists by design, imprisoning Christians?

[Forever_frost]

Last Updated: Tuesday, 9 November 2004, 15:27 GMT
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
China's Christians suffer for their faith
By Kate McGeown
BBC News

"They hung me up across an iron gate, then they yanked open the gate and my whole body lifted until my chest nearly split in two. I hung like that for four hours."

That is how Peter Xu Yongze, the founder of one of the largest religious movements in China, described his treatment during one of five jail sentences on account of his belief in Christianity.

Peter Xu Yongze
Peter Xu Yongze was in jail for a total of eight years
Mr Xu, 61, is not the only Chinese Christian to suffer for his faith. Both Catholics and Protestants have long complained of persecution by the Communist authorities, and human rights groups claim the problem is getting worse.

According to the Jubilee Campaign, an interdenominational lobby group, about 300 Christians are in detention in China at any one time, and that number is set to rise.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3993857.stm

[Forever_frost]

North Korea also makes it a point to jail and kill Christians as well. Do entire atheist nations count as evidence or just anecdote?

[racrguy]

Again, I mentioned experience with atheists. My experience. I thought that's what we were talking about. Want to see what atheists do to Christians if they have power?


China Jails House Church Christians; Suspends Prison Sentence Christian Lawyer
Tuesday, December 26, 2006 (12:00 am)

Email

By BosNewsLife News Center

BEIJING, CHINA (BosNewsLife) — Most, if not all, eight prominent house church Christians in China's eastern Zhejiang province prepared to spend Christmas behind bars Saturday, December 23, after they were sentenced to prison sentences of up to 3.5 years, fellow believers said.

The People's Court of Xiaoshan District in the provincial capital Hangzhou city sentenced the believers late Friday, December 22 after an "almost 12-hour marathon pre-Christmas trial," said religious rights group China Aid Association (CAA).

They were accused of inciting violent resistance to the law after they protested the government's destruction of a church. The seven men and one woman from Zhejiang were arrested after about 3,000 Christians in Xiaoshan, a prospering commercial suburb of the provincial capital Hangzhou, demonstrated against the demolition of their mega-church in July.

http://www.worthynews.com/1205-china...ristian-lawyer

You want to play that game? "when Christians have control over Jews" Holocaust. "when other religions have something Christianity wants" Crusades. "when Christians have control over other Christians" dark ages, and let's not forget the Salem witch trials.

How much of the new testament have you thumbed through?

Have I read cover to cover? No, but I've read quite a bit. And the bible is both the new and old testament, not just the new testament.