Uncle Ted meets bummers goons

[talisman]

I can. You enjoy the liberties of the country so when you're called up to pay for it, you should be man enough to head out

If our country had actually been in danger I would agree with you.

[Forever_frost]

No disrespect to you or your service but how much longer do you feel these liberties you have fought for will be around?

How much longer do you think the wars we fight will be for OUR freedom and not the freedom of another country?

I'll think they'll be for OUR freedom as long as we're keeping our enemies busy elsewhere instead of giving them a chance to come here. If we crack down on every muslim terrorist here (Hasan and clan) and start executing war criminals, we may get somewhere.

[Forever_frost]

If our country had actually been in danger I would agree with you.

And that's the thing. It's not your call. If you believe you are guaranteed freedoms and such here, then you have to pay for them. Sometimes, the government decides that payment comes in the form of you serving. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to leave. But if they leave, they should be exiled for life. When your country called on you to man up and step to the line for the freedoms and rights you're enjoying you fled which means someone else had to take your place.

[talisman]

That's all well and great assuming you completely ignore that Vietnam was the first "corporate" war and that we never had a chance of winning it any way. Surely you've read 1984.

[matts5.0]

Which is why we only have .45% of Americans actually bleeding and sacrificing for the safety and freedom of the 99.55%

yeah you are right, i didnt actually serve 5 years in the Marines

[Sean88gt]

I fail to see how Vietnam had anything to do with American freedom.

[Forever_frost]

That's all well and great assuming you completely ignore that Vietnam was the first "corporate" war and that we never had a chance of winning it any way. Surely you've read 1984.

I have and I also know full well that had we actually fought Vietnam we'd have won. Instead, you get the 'hearts and mind' bs we are dealing with now. Point is, when your country calls you, you stand up and fight. You vote out those that put you in that position, but you go. That's the thing about having freedoms. Sometimes, they require blood to be paid for.

[Forever_frost]

yeah you are right, i didnt actually serve 5 years in the Marines

I wasn't saying you dodged. I'm saying anyone who does dodge, who doesn't serve this country when it needs them is a coward. The 99.55% put the entire weight of the country on the .45% who do actually serve. That's not just, that's not fair and that's not equal protection under the law

[matts5.0]

I wasn't saying you dodged. I'm saying anyone who does dodge, who doesn't serve this country when it needs them is a coward. The 99.55% put the entire weight of the country on the .45% who do actually serve. That's not just, that's not fair and that's not equal protection under the law

well not talking about the draft, but that is their right. Vietnam was a mistake, we should never have went there, just like the unconstitutional wars we are fighting to this day.

[talisman]

I have and I also know full well that had we actually fought Vietnam we'd have won. Instead, you get the 'hearts and mind' bs we are dealing with now. Point is, when your country calls you, you stand up and fight. You vote out those that put you in that position, but you go. That's the thing about having freedoms. Sometimes, they require blood to be paid for.

And that's the great thing about this country. You're also free to tell them to go fuck themselves and vote by burning your selective service card. I've seen where going to the polls gets us. Dumbfucks like Obama. Vietnam was ended by the populace of this country full scale revolting against the system with over 200k people not showing up for their inductions. The Generals should have taken note. THAT is how you win a war, and the populace of this country is much smarter than the government even begins to think it is. The fact that all of the draft dodgers were given amnesty proves it.

[sc281]

And that's the thing. It's not your call. If you believe you are guaranteed freedoms and such here, then you have to pay for them. Sometimes, the government decides that payment comes in the form of you serving. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to leave. But if they leave, they should be exiled for life. When your country called on you to man up and step to the line for the freedoms and rights you're enjoying you fled which means someone else had to take your place.

Since when is it the government that guarantees your freedom? Since when is it that the Government decides what payment is required for your freedom?

If we ever have an actual threat to America, I'll volunteer for infantry. Every war since wwII has been a strategic disgrace, aside from Desert Storm possibly.

Vietnam was a bull$hite war that killed thousands of conscripts, not volunteers mind you, for no legitimate reason whatsoever. AND WE DIDN"T EVEN HAVE THE BALLS TO WIN!!

At least Iraq and Afghanistan were volunteers. Another sacrifice of life, when we could have just carpet bombed them and turned our planes around, along with some nice well timed "accidents" courtesy of spec ops. AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE BALLS TO WIN!!

[Forever_frost]

Since when is it the government that guarantees your freedom? Since when is it that the Government decides what payment is required for your freedom?

Vietnam was a bull$hite war that killed thousands of conscripts, not volunteers mind you, for no legitimate reason whatsoever. AND WE DIDN"T EVEN HAVE THE BALLS TO WIN!!

At least Iraq and Afghanistan were volunteers. Another sacrifice of life, when we could have just carpet bombed them and turned our planes around. AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE BALLS TO WIN!!

The currency of freedom has always been blood.

[talisman]

The currency of freedom has always been blood.

You're overlooking the fact that it's our freedom to challenge the system in ways other than voting. Rolling over and going to an undeclared war based off some vague duty is laughable. WE are the country, not the talking heads in DC. The country took out its frustrations with the draft and government and solved the problem through the back door. Now THAT is motherfucking freedom.

[Forever_frost]

You're overlooking the fact that it's our freedom to challenge the system in ways other than voting. Rolling over and going to an undeclared war based off some vague duty is laughable. WE are the country, not the talking heads in DC. The country took out its frustrations with the draft and government and solved the problem through the back door. Now THAT is motherfucking freedom.

Yes, there is that freedom. You have the freedom to overthrow any tyrannous government by force or vote. Jefferson said that. However, you do not have the right to ignore the country's call to war. If you do, then you should be arrested and exiled.

[sc281]

The currency of freedom has always been blood.

So how was our freedom at stake with Vietnam?

So how was our freedom at stake with Afghanistan?

So how was our freedom at stake with Iraq?

More specifically, why were our infantry's lives put at risk in these countries unnecessarily by putting them on the ground with with ridiculous ROE's and NO plan on ever actually winning?

As a wounded soldier yourself, I would think these are questions you would like to have answered.