Obama Administration Kills Pipeline

[stevo]

We aren't allowed to strike.

We were set to strike on Dec 7.

We aren't allowed to strike.

the first strike was pushed back from Oct 7

We aren't allowed to strike.

it will be 3 years until we get our next chance at a strike.

Yeah... No lies in there, but it is starting to smell like a crawfish boil un here.

Stevo

[Broncojohnny]

And the media is going to take that and run with it. Here is a new's flash. China was going to buy that amount of oil regardless of a pipeline.

Of course they were, we all know that price has nothing to do with their demand!

[FreightTrain]

Yeah... No lies in there, but it is starting to smell like a crawfish boil un here.

Stevo

LOL that blind rage is getting to you. So if we actually never had a strike because the Law Makers got involved which they are required to do by law. How can you call me a liar when I said we aren't allowed to strike? So who's crawfishing.

[Broncojohnny]

Are you that blind with rage or just dense lol. I love how you fill in the blanks of what he basicly said as you put it. Every CEO is like a politican. You think he's going to come out and say I'm so happy this deal is dead because we are going to make a shit load of money off it.

He said, "The end of the Keystone Pipeline project puts the U.S. at a competitive disadvantage and My concern is ultimately what does it do for competitiveness in America

lol

[stevo]

LOL that blind rage is getting to you. So if we actually never had a strike because the Law Makers got involved which they are required to do by law. How can you call me a liar when I said we aren't allowed to strike? So who's crawfishing.

LOL blind rage? I'm laughing at your attempt to bullshit your way of lying in the first thread about going on strike. You attempted to lie then, tried to cover it up by calling it 'sarcasm' yesterday, and have been slobbering like an idiot to spin it since. How is it you claim you were going to go on strike, if you can't legally? Simple, you are full of shit.

Keep on being the village idiot of the political forum though, we need the laughs in here.

Stevo

[Forever_frost]

Are you that blind with rage or just dense lol. I love how you fill in the blanks of what he basicly said as you put it. Every CEO is like a politican. You think he's going to come out and say I'm so happy this deal is dead because we are going to make a shit load of money off it.

He said, "The end of the Keystone Pipeline project puts the U.S. at a competitive disadvantage and My concern is ultimately what does it do for competitiveness in America

So what you're saying is we can't take what you say as fact, we actually have to research applicable law because when you're called out on being wrong, you'll claim sarcasm. You also believe I'm blind with rage or dense. I'm being rational and calm and pointing out facts.

Fact: You said you can strike.

Fact: You said you can't strike.

These two facts are in stark contrast to one another. Which is it? Can you or can't you?

[Vertnut]

Just saw a blip about congress trying to go around Barry on this pipeline. It seems they are going straight to the regulatory commission to get a permit issued? Should be interesting...

[SMEGMA STENCH]

So yeah just like I said. We can't strike. Google it. Last time we threatened strike they had 3 lawmakers and Federal judges on call to sign the injunction.

You may not be "allowed" to but that doesn't necessarily mean it will never happen.

As for your constant questioning of all the union haters, I can't believe you haven't realized. On the whole, unions do more harm than good. Yeah, you have different ones out there and some really aren't all that bad. But you got a LOT of the big ones out there making life miserable for a lot of people so what do you expect? Everyone to love them?

[Vertnut]

Another article on Drudge today about transporting crude by rail. Bottom line is it adds $3 per barrel to ship by rail over the pipeline cost.

[Strychnine]

Then how come we have 1000 locomotives and 30,000 cars sitting in storage.

This is from Sep 2011.

US Inland Oil Boom Leading To Rail Car Shortage

HOUSTON (Dow Jones)--A looming shortage of rail cars threatens to throttle oil companies' plans to increase the amount of crude they transport out of booming oil fields in the interior of the U.S.

As oil in North Dakota and south Texas is pumped out of the ground faster than available pipelines can carry it away, refiners have turned to railroads to bring in petroleum shipments.

The number of railcars hauling crude oil has jumped suddenly in the past few years as new drilling technology has unlocked oil and gas reserves in areas previously considered economically unattractive, such as the Bakken shale in North Dakota and the Eagle Ford shale in south Texas. About 46,000 carloads of crude traveled the rails in 2010, 57% higher from the year before, according to the latest statistics from the Association of American Railroads. The scarcity of cars is expected to last another few years, when pipeline projects are expected to come online to link the newly prolific oil fields to market.

Musket Corp., Lario Logistics LLC and other companies are building rail terminals at the Bakken and Eagle Ford, both of which produce crude oil at relatively low market prices because of a supply glut in the main oil storage hub of Cushing, Okla. Suppliers then ship the oil via unit trains -- more than a hundred cars each -- to markets where oil prices are higher, such as Louisiana.

This problem comes as refiners and fuel shippers increasingly rely on the price difference between the crude delivered at Cushing and the higher global price to make a profit. Tesoro Corp. (TSO) is building a "pipeline on rails" that would run 120 rail cars of crude oil every other day from the Bakken Shale in North Dakota to its 120,000 barrel-a-day refinery in Anacortes, Wash.

But the sudden need for crude oil railcars demand has outstripped supply. Union Tank Car Co., one of the major manufacturers of rail cars, has leased out its entire hazardous material railcar fleet to be used in hauling crude and has a "sizeable" production backlog, company spokesman Bruce Winslow said.

"Our lease fleet is leased," Winslow said.

Within the next six months, rail capacity for crude oil leaving the Bakken Shale field in North Dakota will double to 300,000 barrels a day, according to Musket Corp. Bakken oil production reached 425,000 barrels a day in June, up 8% year to date, and North Dakota government projections say it could reach about a million barrels a day by December 2018.

Analysts aren't sure whether the shortage of rail cars will directly cause shale oil producers to slow the flow out of their wells, but it could make some production unprofitable. The costs for alternative transport methods such as trucks could have high enough price tags that drillers decide the added price isn't worth the effort, said Chris Ross, senior analyst for oil and gas at CRA Marakon.

"You can always find someway of getting the oil out," Ross said. "But it costs more and changes the wellhead economics."

As rail car supply dwindles, providers are hiking their rates. Rail car lease prices have nearly doubled in the past 18 months, reaching about $1,000 a month per car as part of leases that last for about five years, said Larry Padfield, vice president at U.S. Development Group, which operates a 40,000 barrel-a-day crude terminal in the Eagle Ford region.

"Absolutely, beyond a doubt, infrastructure is getting tighter," Padfield said. "They can't make cars fast enough."

[Broncojohnny]

The infrastructure is already in place to ship the oil by rail. Plus one train can move 60,000 barrels of oil at one time. Why spend billions on a pipeline when you don't need it.

More laughs in bold below...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-23/buffett-s-burlington-northern-among-winners-in-obama-rejection-of-pipeline.html

Buffett’s Burlington Northern Among Winners From Keystone Denial

With modest expansion, railroads can handle all new oil produced in western Canada through 2030, according to an analysis of the Keystone proposal by the U.S. State Department.

“Whatever people bring to us, we’re ready to haul,” Krista York-Wooley, a spokeswoman for Burlington Northern, a unit of Buffett’s Omaha, Nebraska-based Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (BRK/A), said in an interview. If Keystone XL “doesn’t happen, we’re here to haul.”

The State Department denied TransCanada a permit on Jan. 18, saying there was not enough time to study the proposal by Feb. 21, a deadline Congress imposed on President Barack Obama. Calgary-based TransCanada has said it intends to re-apply with a route that avoids an environmentally sensitive region of Nebraska, something the Obama administration encouraged.

The rail option, though costlier, would lessen the environmental impact, such as a loss of wetlands and agricultural productivity, compared to the pipeline, according to the State Department analysis. Greenhouse gas emmissions, however, would be worse.

If completed, Keystone XL would deliver 700,000 barrels a day of crude from Alberta’s oil sands to refineries along the Gulf of Mexico, crossing 1,661 miles (2,673-kilometers) over Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas.
Tanker Car Bottleneck

Investors such as John Stephenson, who helps manage $2.7 billion for First Asset Management Inc. in Toronto said he anticipated the project would move forward next year. Pipeline shipping costs remain lower than rail, and a lack of readily available tanker cars may create a bottleneck.

The availability of tank cars may create a temporary “hiccup” in transport capacity, according to Tony Hatch, an independent railroad analyst in New York. Rail cars are “a pretty hot commodity,” as a result of demand from oil producers in North Dakota, he said.

Rail car production is already at a three-year high as manufacturers such as Greenbrier Cos Inc. (GBX) and American Railcar Industries Inc. (ARII) expand to meet demand for sand used in oil and gas exploration, according to Steve Barger, an analyst at Keybanc Capital Markets Inc. in Cleveland, citing Railway Supply Institute statistics.

‘Long-Term Solution’

Rail-car suppliers can add capacity, Hatch said.

“Railroads are not just a stopgap while we wait for a pipeline,” Hatch said in an interview. “They are potentially part of the long-term solution.”

Railroads are being used in North Dakota (STOND1), where oil producers have spurred a fivefold increase in output by using intensive drilling practices in the Bakken, a geologic formation that stretches from southern Alberta to the northern U.S. Great Plains. During 2011, rail capacity in the region tripled to almost 300,000 barrels a day as higher production exceeded what pipelines handle, according to the State Department report on Keystone XL.

Shipping oil using tank cars on rail costs about $3 more a barrel than pipeline transport, using prices in North Dakota, a differential “unlikely” to slow the development of oil sands crude if no pipeline is build, the State Department said. The gap is shrinking as larger storage terminals are built, the agency said.

‘Ready to Haul’

Burlington Northern carries about 25 percent of the oil from the Bakken, said Krista York-Wooley, the railroad spokeswoman. The company can carry higher volumes from North Dakota or Alberta, she said.

Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. (CP)’s shipments from North Dakota climbed to more than 13,000 carloads last year from about 500 in 2009, Ed Greenberg, a spokesman, said in an e-mail. The Calgary- based company has a similar plan in western Canada.

“With an extensive rail network and proven expertise in moving energy, CP offers a flexible option for transporting crude oil and other energy-related products to and from key locations in North America,” Vice President Tracy Robinson said in an e-mail. “Rail is scalable, allowing CP to effectively keep pace with the shipping needs of producers.”
Oil Sands

Canadian National Railway Co. (CNR), the biggest Canadian railroad based on annual sales, considers Alberta’s oil sands a chance to expand its business, according to company filings.

“CN continues to work closely with customers in Alberta to capitalize on oil-and-gas related opportunities,” the Calgary- based company said. “CN sees potential for the outbound movement of oil sands products such as bitumen and synthetic crude to refineries in the U.S. Gulf Coast region, or eventually through West Coast ports to offshore markets.”

Imperial Oil Ltd. (IMO), a Calgary-based unit of Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM), will consider “various transportation options” for oil sands exports, according Pius Rohlheiser, a spokesman. Cenovus Energy Inc. (CVE) uses railroads to bring in dilutants needed to mix with heavy crude before it can be shipped by pipeline, and to export oil from the Bakken formation in Canada, according to Jessica Wilkinson, a spokeswoman.
Environmentalists’ Opposition

Environmental groups such as the Natural Resources Defense Council have campaigned to stop Keystone XL because leaks could threaten drinking water supplies and processing Alberta crude produces more greenhouse gas emissions than conventional oil.

Railroads too present environmental issues. Moving crude on trains produces more global warming gases than a pipeline, the State Department said.

Union Pacific Corp. (UNP), based in Omaha, Nebraska, anticipated an increase in rail traffic with or without Keystone, Chief Executive Officer Jim Young said in an interview.

“We would have been involved with moving the pipe and a lot of the construction business in building it,” Young said. “On the other hand, if you don’t build any pipeline capacity, you’re going to be moving a lot of crude by train.”

It will take five to eight years before oil sands production outstrips existing export capacity, the State Department said.

Tank car utilization is at “record levels” fueled by demand from oil and natural gas producers, according to Doug Reece, director of marketing for Oakville, Ontario-based Procor Ltd., a rail-car leasing company. The soonest new cars will be available is 2013, he said.

“In western Canada, shippers and third parties are investing in the necessary infrastructure and we see strong growth ahead,” Reece said in an e-mail. “We are having regular dialogue with customers about their potential needs, as collaboration and fleet planning have become critical.”

Rail allows shippers to reach different markets and capture better prices at refineries, said John Mims, a transportation analyst at Friedman Billings Ramsey & Co. in Arlington, Virginia.

“It’s a good secular growth story for the railroads,” Mims said in an interview.“They’re playing an increasing role, especially as you see this push back from a regulatory standpoint on the pipelines.”

[Vertnut]

Al, that's the very article I was referring to in my post above. When oil goes up $3 a barrel, it can have a pretty damn big effect on gas prices.

[FreightTrain]

More laughs in bold below...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-23/buffett-s-burlington-northern-among-winners-in-obama-rejection-of-pipeline.html

Buffett’s Burlington Northern Among Winners From Keystone Denial

With modest expansion, railroads can handle all new oil produced in western Canada through 2030, according to an analysis of the Keystone proposal by the U.S. State Department.

“Whatever people bring to us, we’re ready to haul,” Krista York-Wooley, a spokeswoman for Burlington Northern, a unit of Buffett’s Omaha, Nebraska-based Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (BRK/A), said in an interview. If Keystone XL “doesn’t happen, we’re here to haul.”

The State Department denied TransCanada a permit on Jan. 18, saying there was not enough time to study the proposal by Feb. 21, a deadline Congress imposed on President Barack Obama. Calgary-based TransCanada has said it intends to re-apply with a route that avoids an environmentally sensitive region of Nebraska, something the Obama administration encouraged.

The rail option, though costlier, would lessen the environmental impact, such as a loss of wetlands and agricultural productivity, compared to the pipeline, according to the State Department analysis. Greenhouse gas emmissions, however, would be worse.

If completed, Keystone XL would deliver 700,000 barrels a day of crude from Alberta’s oil sands to refineries along the Gulf of Mexico, crossing 1,661 miles (2,673-kilometers) over Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas.
Tanker Car Bottleneck

Investors such as John Stephenson, who helps manage $2.7 billion for First Asset Management Inc. in Toronto said he anticipated the project would move forward next year. Pipeline shipping costs remain lower than rail, and a lack of readily available tanker cars may create a bottleneck.

The availability of tank cars may create a temporary “hiccup” in transport capacity, according to Tony Hatch, an independent railroad analyst in New York. Rail cars are “a pretty hot commodity,” as a result of demand from oil producers in North Dakota, he said.

Rail car production is already at a three-year high as manufacturers such as Greenbrier Cos Inc. (GBX) and American Railcar Industries Inc. (ARII) expand to meet demand for sand used in oil and gas exploration, according to Steve Barger, an analyst at Keybanc Capital Markets Inc. in Cleveland, citing Railway Supply Institute statistics.

‘Long-Term Solution’

Rail-car suppliers can add capacity, Hatch said.

“Railroads are not just a stopgap while we wait for a pipeline,” Hatch said in an interview. “They are potentially part of the long-term solution.”

Railroads are being used in North Dakota (STOND1), where oil producers have spurred a fivefold increase in output by using intensive drilling practices in the Bakken, a geologic formation that stretches from southern Alberta to the northern U.S. Great Plains. During 2011, rail capacity in the region tripled to almost 300,000 barrels a day as higher production exceeded what pipelines handle, according to the State Department report on Keystone XL.

Shipping oil using tank cars on rail costs about $3 more a barrel than pipeline transport, using prices in North Dakota, a differential “unlikely” to slow the development of oil sands crude if no pipeline is build, the State Department said. The gap is shrinking as larger storage terminals are built, the agency said.

‘Ready to Haul’

Burlington Northern carries about 25 percent of the oil from the Bakken, said Krista York-Wooley, the railroad spokeswoman. The company can carry higher volumes from North Dakota or Alberta, she said.

Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. (CP)’s shipments from North Dakota climbed to more than 13,000 carloads last year from about 500 in 2009, Ed Greenberg, a spokesman, said in an e-mail. The Calgary- based company has a similar plan in western Canada.

“With an extensive rail network and proven expertise in moving energy, CP offers a flexible option for transporting crude oil and other energy-related products to and from key locations in North America,” Vice President Tracy Robinson said in an e-mail. “Rail is scalable, allowing CP to effectively keep pace with the shipping needs of producers.”
Oil Sands

Canadian National Railway Co. (CNR), the biggest Canadian railroad based on annual sales, considers Alberta’s oil sands a chance to expand its business, according to company filings.

“CN continues to work closely with customers in Alberta to capitalize on oil-and-gas related opportunities,” the Calgary- based company said. “CN sees potential for the outbound movement of oil sands products such as bitumen and synthetic crude to refineries in the U.S. Gulf Coast region, or eventually through West Coast ports to offshore markets.”

Imperial Oil Ltd. (IMO), a Calgary-based unit of Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM), will consider “various transportation options” for oil sands exports, according Pius Rohlheiser, a spokesman. Cenovus Energy Inc. (CVE) uses railroads to bring in dilutants needed to mix with heavy crude before it can be shipped by pipeline, and to export oil from the Bakken formation in Canada, according to Jessica Wilkinson, a spokeswoman.
Environmentalists’ Opposition

Environmental groups such as the Natural Resources Defense Council have campaigned to stop Keystone XL because leaks could threaten drinking water supplies and processing Alberta crude produces more greenhouse gas emissions than conventional oil.

Railroads too present environmental issues. Moving crude on trains produces more global warming gases than a pipeline, the State Department said.

Union Pacific Corp. (UNP), based in Omaha, Nebraska, anticipated an increase in rail traffic with or without Keystone, Chief Executive Officer Jim Young said in an interview.

“We would have been involved with moving the pipe and a lot of the construction business in building it,” Young said. “On the other hand, if you don’t build any pipeline capacity, you’re going to be moving a lot of crude by train.”

It will take five to eight years before oil sands production outstrips existing export capacity, the State Department said.

Tank car utilization is at “record levels” fueled by demand from oil and natural gas producers, according to Doug Reece, director of marketing for Oakville, Ontario-based Procor Ltd., a rail-car leasing company. The soonest new cars will be available is 2013, he said.

“In western Canada, shippers and third parties are investing in the necessary infrastructure and we see strong growth ahead,” Reece said in an e-mail. “We are having regular dialogue with customers about their potential needs, as collaboration and fleet planning have become critical.”

Rail allows shippers to reach different markets and capture better prices at refineries, said John Mims, a transportation analyst at Friedman Billings Ramsey & Co. in Arlington, Virginia.

“It’s a good secular growth story for the railroads,” Mims said in an interview.“They’re playing an increasing role, especially as you see this push back from a regulatory standpoint on the pipelines.”

Thanks for making all my points by posting that article. I guess that $3 a barrel is still cheaper than the $10 a barrel you kept crying about last week.

[talisman]

...and the hits keep on coming!

[Broncojohnny]

Thanks for making all my points by posting that article. I guess that $3 a barrel is still cheaper than the $10 a barrel you kept crying about last week.

You said the infrastructure was in place, it isn't. You said there was no reason for a pipeline, the reason is the $3. Guess they left all that out of the union handout.