abortion law wording

[racrguy]

Two humans don’t create a non-human parasite that later becomes a human.

If a baby has been delivered but the umbilical cord has not been cut — i.e., that awful, awful parasite of “unknown” origin is still greedily sucking nutrients from the defenseless mother — is it OK to kill the baby?

A born child cannot maintain its own bodily functions. It must be fed, clothed, sheltered and so on. To arbitrarily call the born or unborn a parasite is hyperbole.
I'm guess I would fit under the anti-abortion crowd but I am quite willing to acknowledge that there are a helluva lot of gray areas here. Each day, science keep pushing back the gestation time needed for a baby to survive outside the womb. At what point does life begin? From a purely technical standpoint, the zygote is indeed a living muti-cellular organism. Even semen and eggs are "living" but I have to admit that I certainly have no problem with birth control. I think a very reasonable argument can be made that preventing the implantation of the zygote isn't murder. Beyond that, I think there are a lot of questions marks.

Maintain its own bodily functions as in, control it's own breathing, heart rate, things of that nature. There are already laws banning unnecessary abortions in the third trimester, and those I agree with, because the child CAN live outside the womb at that point. Prior to that, remove it from the womb and it won't survive. Also, I think you should look up the definition of parasite. A human can be both a human and a parasite, the two terms aren't mutually exclusive.

So a quadraplegic or someome on life support are not "life"? That's a pretty shitty interpretation, don't you think?

Good try grasping at straws. Quadraplegics can still breathe on their own depending on the severity of their injuries. The quadraplegic/life support argument is moot, they were, in a vast majority of cases, at one time able to maintain their own bodily functions and now have had an unfortunate event occur that caused their current problem. So no, it's not a shitty interpretation.

[Treasure Chest]

Two humans don’t create a non-human parasite that later becomes a human.

If a baby has been delivered but the umbilical cord has not been cut — i.e., that awful, awful parasite of “unknown” origin is still greedily sucking nutrients from the defenseless mother — is it OK to kill the baby?

A born child cannot maintain its own bodily functions. It must be fed, clothed, sheltered and so on. To arbitrarily call the born or unborn a parasite is hyperbole.

I'm guess I would fit under the anti-abortion crowd but I am quite willing to acknowledge that there are a helluva lot of gray areas here. Each day, science keep pushing back the gestation time needed for a baby to survive outside the womb. At what point does life begin? From a purely technical standpoint, the zygote is indeed a living muti-cellular organism. Even semen and eggs are "living" but I have to admit that I certainly have no problem with birth control. I think a very reasonable argument can be made that preventing the implantation of the zygote isn't murder. Beyond that, I think there are a lot of questions marks.

I agree with you, to a point. I've had three viable pregnancies, resulting in a child, and I have never considered an abortion. I've also has a pregnancy that I knew was doomed from 12 weeks, in which most law makers would stand behind, terms of abortion law, but abortion wasn't an option for me. I carried that child another 15 weeks. I've also had several first trimester miscarriages.

Here's the funny thing about being pro-choice: you respect another woman's choice, no matter the circumstances. Are there women that abuse the privilege? You bet your ass. When you've watch your child languish over months of sonograms, your perspective changes. At any stage, I could have pleaded my case and very few people would have judged my decision to end my child's suffering. I knew, with my history of pre-term labor, I wouldn't carry my child to full term. When the moment came that my body decided that I would go into labor, we took no heroics. There were no brethine shots, and when I delivered, I asked the doctors not to intubate him. All of the surgeries in the world wouldn't give my child the standard of living I wanted for him. He would have an existence full of pain and suffering; filled with surgeries that may have won him a couple of years of pain. He would never leave a clinical setting. He survived a total of three minutes--and I can say, without doubt, that was the longest three minutes of my life.

That was a very personal decision for me. That being said, I cannot fathom, had I made the choice to have an abortion, pleading my case in front of a judge. I will stand beside any woman in her right to make that choice for herself. I may not agree with her motives, but I believe there are higher powers to answer to than the supreme court. That is something she will have to live with and reconcile, at a later date.

[Treasure Chest]

Maintain its own bodily functions as in, control it's own breathing, heart rate, things of that nature. There are already laws banning unnecessary abortions in the third trimester, and those I agree with, because the child CAN live outside the womb at that point. Prior to that, remove it from the womb and it won't survive. Also, I think you should look up the definition of parasite. A human can be both a human and a parasite, the two terms aren't mutually exclusive.

To a point. The literal definition of a parasite is an organism, of another species, that takes from its host. A fetus will take from its host, in terms of nutrients, minerals, and other sustenance. A fetus will even go as far as to drain calcium from its mother's mother's teeth and bones. But, I also get the point you are making. In a literal form, pregnancy is not parasitic, symbiotic, commensilitic, or mutualistic. It's a category in and of itself.

[Forever_frost]

So lemme get this straight. You want the government to stay out of people's personal choices, unless that choice affects a cluster of tissue that is not medically viable outside of the uterus?

Actually, I don't want the FEDERAL government making any decisions on personal choice or on abortion. STates however, do have that power. So what is the cutoff? At what point do you stop seeing it as a 'cluster of tissue' to a baby? Perhaps seeing that 'cluster of tissue' and having them point out features would make someone change their mind.

Where is the issue? You want to have this procedure done? Okay, it's your right. However, before you do it, here's what you're doing. Here's the heartbeat, here's the sonogram. Still your choice, but now you're informed.

Oh and yes, I'm pro life and anti-welfare. You can't take care of the child? Stop fucking having them.

[Treasure Chest]

Actually, I don't want the FEDERAL government making any decisions on personal choice or on abortion. STates however, do have that power. So what is the cutoff? At what point do you stop seeing it as a 'cluster of tissue' to a baby? Perhaps seeing that 'cluster of tissue' and having them point out features would make someone change their mind.

Where is the issue? You want to have this procedure done? Okay, it's your right. However, before you do it, here's what you're doing. Here's the heartbeat, here's the sonogram. Still your choice, but now you're informed.

Oh and yes, I'm pro life and anti-welfare. You can't take care of the child? Stop fucking having them.

That's expecting this generation to have a level of accountability that is unprecedented.

[Vertnut]

Maintain its own bodily functions as in, control it's own breathing, heart rate, things of that nature. There are already laws banning unnecessary abortions in the third trimester, and those I agree with, because the child CAN live outside the womb at that point. Prior to that, remove it from the womb and it won't survive. Also, I think you should look up the definition of parasite. A human can be both a human and a parasite, the two terms aren't mutually exclusive.




Good try grasping at straws. Quadraplegics can still breathe on their own depending on the severity of their injuries. The quadraplegic/life support argument is moot, they were, in a vast majority of cases, at one time able to maintain their own bodily functions and now have had an unfortunate event occur that caused their current problem. So no, it's not a shitty interpretation.

Straws? So who pulls the plug? Does that mean you have no real answer? It's a legitimate example. Been around any bad "quads" lately? I have. If not, please realize you have no clue what you're talking about.

[racrguy]

To a point. The literal definition of a parasite is an organism, of another species, that takes from its host. A fetus will take from its host, in terms of nutrients, minerals, and other sustenance. A fetus will even go as far as to drain calcium from its mother's mother's teeth and bones. But, I also get the point you are making. In a literal form, pregnancy is not parasitic, symbiotic, commensilitic, or mutualistic. It's a category in and of itself.

par·a·site
noun \ˈper-ə-ˌsīt, ˈpa-rə-\
Definition of PARASITE
1
: a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery
2
: an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism
3
: something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return
— par·a·sit·ic \ˌper-ə-ˈsi-tik, ˌpa-rə-\ also par·a·sit·i·cal \-ti-kəl\ adjective
— par·a·sit·i·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
See parasite defined for English-language learners »
See parasite defined for kids »

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasite

Straws? So who pulls the plug? Does that mean you have no real answer? It's a legitimate example. Been around any bad "quads" lately? I have. If not, please realize you have no clue what you're talking about.

No, it's not a legitimate example and I've already explained why. Quadraplegics and those on life support aren't even in the same ballpark as what I was talking about. Please realize you have no clue what you're talking about.

[VETTKLR]

Reposted gif Parasite!

[racrguy]

Reposted gif Parasite!

She got it from me....

[Vertnut]

par·a·site
noun \ˈper-ə-ˌsīt, ˈpa-rə-\
Definition of PARASITE
1
: a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery
2
: an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism
3
: something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return
— par·a·sit·ic \ˌper-ə-ˈsi-tik, ˌpa-rə-\ also par·a·sit·i·cal \-ti-kəl\ adjective
— par·a·sit·i·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
See parasite defined for English-language learners »
See parasite defined for kids »

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasite

No, it's not a legitimate example and I've already explained why. Quadraplegics and those on life support aren't even in the same ballpark as what I was talking about. Please realize you have no clue what you're talking about.

Things are just not black and white when it comes to defining "parasites", "life", etc. I'm not a pure "pro-lifer", but I guess I don't piss away life like some of you keyboard hard-asses.

[Forever_frost]

That's expecting this generation to have a level of accountability that is unprecedented.

That is because we have the technology to allow them to make a fully informed decision. That argument is kind of like getting upset because now we can see what acid does to brain tissue or smoking does to lungs or eating too many bigmacs can do in relation to cancer. Why is there this fear that if we provide more information that it's a bad thing?

[EW]

Why is there this fear that if we provide more information that it's a bad thing?

"provide more information" = push our agenda by force in an effort to sell someone our opinion

Churchies just think about trying to get the "baby" born by any means and don't care about the consequences.

[Vertnut]

That is because we have the technology to allow them to make a fully informed decision. That argument is kind of like getting upset because now we can see what acid does to brain tissue or smoking does to lungs or eating too many bigmacs can do in relation to cancer. Why is there this fear that if we provide more information that it's a bad thing?

Because it forces them to face the reality of what they're doing. Instead of a minor inconvenience, it becomes "real". If they still feel strongly enough to have the abortion, then fine.

[Forever_frost]

"provide more information" = push our agenda by force in an effort to sell someone our opinion

Churchies just think about trying to get the "baby" born by any means and don't care about the consequences.

No, provide more information means just that. We aren't saying "SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING? YOU'RE KILLING THIS!!!" No, what the law is saying "you want to have this procedure done? Okay, here's the information. There's a heartbeat, here it is, here's the sonogram so you can see exactly what you're doing. What is your decision?"

Did the church get the woman pregnant? If not, it's the parent's job to care for the child. How is it it's the right of the people to fuck as they want but when it comes to children it's "Oh, if you don't want welfare, then you want the child to die?" No, I want the parent to take care of the child, if they can't, take the child, tie their tubes and never let them have another.

[stevo]

"provide more information" = push our agenda by force in an effort to sell someone our opinion

Churchies just think about trying to get the "baby" born by any means and don't care about the consequences.

The aborting mother has the right not to not have the information presented to her as it has always been, this law just makes it where the doctor cannot refuse to show her if she wants to see it.
The mother can still use her 'month after pill' just as always.

abortion doctor: "Ma'am, would you like to see the sonogram or hear the heartbeat?"

aborting mother: "No, please just get it out."

abortion doctor: "Okay, one second while I plug in the Vacu-Chopper 2000."

Stevo