"Tongues"

[BrianC]

First, here's a decent sermon on tongues and how it works. I've only listened to about 20 minutes of it, but I could tell the guy knew the truth about it and was explaining it well:

Part 1 of 22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3cLChnG_mE&feature=related

Lets be reasonable here...If God is in possesion of me through salvation, how then can demons posses the same possesion? Our bodies are called "the temple of the lord." Would our God dwell in the same house as demons do?

Find biblical evidence of what you're saying. You're going to find that it doesn't exist. Now, what we are told is that we should not cast out demons and not fill that space of our lives with God, because the demons will come right back with friends. You should really do some research on this. I used to believe the same as you until I did some research on it. Demons in the Church is an excellent book for this. What Demons Can do to Christians is another decent one if I remember correctly.

And tongues? Start a new thread. Tongues is nothing more that a "act" put on by believers that need more than faith. It will take me some time to go through it verse by verse to show you, but I might do that.

Incorrect. You do have some people just faking it to be accepted, that is true. However, if you do some research, you will find that when people record the tongues speakers and send the recordings to linguists, the linguists can identify the language and translate. Linguists say that yes, some people are faking and there is no discernible language or language structure. However, they say that some of the people are speaking a known language. They say it is typically an extremely rare African tribal language only known to one satanic tribe specifically. And when they translate it, they find that the people are cursing Christ.

If one is to understand the purpose for this, one needs to understand free-will and prayer. We were given free-will in Genesis 1:26-28. God says He gave us dominion (sovereign rule) over the earth and everything on it. That's not only free-will, but it also means that God cannot interfere here unless we ask Him to do so since He's given us rule here. Thus, prayer is our way to get God's will brought into the earth. The same goes for Satan's will. Pray to him or curse Jesus and a person is bringing Satan's will into the earth. So, basically, by convincing Christians that it is the "Holy Spirit" who is speaking through them, Satan has gotten an avenue through which he can get Christians to pray against God and not bring His will into the earth. Pretty clever.

[YALE]

There's some pretty good science out there that says tounges and hallucinations are caused by exciting the limbic system through repetitive actions. Another example of this would be Gregorian or Tibetan chanting... and schizophrenia. Schizophrenia falls into this category. You're still a trollin' asshole, though. GTFO.

[BrianC]

A troll is someone you comes in to start trouble. I don't actually come in to start trouble. I try to start a debate about something related to the topic of this forum and I discuss it with the posters. Trolls are people purposely trying to antagonize others. I'm not purposely trying to antagonize people. I really would like a civilized discussion with them. I can't help it if they get bent out of shape about it. lol If they'll be civil, they don't have to worry about getting bent out of shape. It's just a discussion for crying out loud!

[Denny]

The term "speaking in tongues" is so misinterpreted, it's not even funy... OK, yes it is. Those Holy Rollers that do that jibber jabber bullshit are just off their rockers. I find it very blasphemous and it gives Christianity a bad rep... among other things.

Look in Acts Chapter 2. During Pentecost, Jews from all over to celebrate the traditional Pentecost. There were a group of believers (followers of Christ) that gathered and waited for a "promise from the Father" (refer to Acts 1). At this time, there appeared tongues of fire above those believers that enabled them to speak in different languages that they never spoke before so that everyone else gathered could hear the Gospel through them.

What that means is trhat they never learned any of these languages, yet everyone could understand them. The charade that goes on today is just some fool making up noises that NOBODY can understand except another fool that "translates" the bullshit.

You'll see exactly what "speaking in tongues" means when we have two witnesses breaking it down for everyone. At that time, words will come out and everyone will hear it in their own language, so that a lack of understanding will not be an excuse.

[BlackSnake]

Many people get Acts 2 confused with the "gift of tongues" in Corinthians.

In Acts 2, this was a miracle event that started like so...

And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

This never happened twice. Imagine the sight of the flames coming from mid air if you would.

In Corinthians it is speaking of the "gift of tongues". A totally different thing all together. The gift of tongues is just that. We you meet someone who speaks several languages, what do we say? "Man you are gifted." And you can use this gift to reach others, not just those in your native tongue.

Corinthians even gives us instructions, lol. May there be interpretors. So, if we are to have interpreters ready to interpret, how would we know who can interpret except for that we choose a certain tongue?


Time has delayed me, but I will post more on this topic when I have more time.

[Denny]

Someone help me out, as I'll need an interpreter...


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[BrianC]

Many people get Acts 2 confused with the "gift of tongues" in Corinthians.

In Acts 2, this was a miracle event that started like so...

And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

This never happened twice. Imagine the sight of the flames coming from mid air if you would.

In Corinthians it is speaking of the "gift of tongues". A totally different thing all together. The gift of tongues is just that. We you meet someone who speaks several languages, what do we say? "Man you are gifted." And you can use this gift to reach others, not just those in your native tongue.

Corinthians even gives us instructions, lol. May there be interpretors. So, if we are to have interpreters ready to interpret, how would we know who can interpret except for that we choose a certain tongue?


Time has delayed me, but I will post more on this topic when I have more time.

Actually, what happens in Acts 2 is the same thing, but there was a visual to go along with it. That's the only difference. Because when the people in acts 2 started speaking in different languages, the different races of people there heard their own languages and many thousands were saved, just like what happens when a missionary walks up to someone and starts speaking their language and gets them saved without knowing the language.

If you read 1 Cor 14 closely, in regard to the interpretation, it says not to share the message with anyone else if you hear it in your spirit and cannot interpret it. It says only to share it with everyone else if you hear it and understand/interpret what it means. In other words, Paul was teaching them to stop murmuring these languages they did not understand (possibly that tribal language from Africa which we record and translate now and find to be cursing Jesus).

[BrianC]

Someone help me out, as I'll need an interpreter...


fdkgjbdfvlnbrBdrjgglnrgrlnUsdfdfkjhrfvLasdljkfhflfhernbrrLzklfhdrfnbrjSvfm;ertiohynmiggHddsfIrvreuiovnrkevlhTdsflvhtvnv

Now, I'm no linguist, but I think that post is full of BS. lol

[BrianC]

The term "speaking in tongues" is so misinterpreted, it's not even funy... OK, yes it is. Those Holy Rollers that do that jibber jabber bullshit are just off their rockers. I find it very blasphemous and it gives Christianity a bad rep... among other things.

Look in Acts Chapter 2. During Pentecost, Jews from all over to celebrate the traditional Pentecost. There were a group of believers (followers of Christ) that gathered and waited for a "promise from the Father" (refer to Acts 1). At this time, there appeared tongues of fire above those believers that enabled them to speak in different languages that they never spoke before so that everyone else gathered could hear the Gospel through them.

What that means is trhat they never learned any of these languages, yet everyone could understand them. The charade that goes on today is just some fool making up noises that NOBODY can understand except another fool that "translates" the bullshit.

You'll see exactly what "speaking in tongues" means when we have two witnesses breaking it down for everyone. At that time, words will come out and everyone will hear it in their own language, so that a lack of understanding will not be an excuse.

That's a pretty good understanding of one of the aspects of tongues. I have heard two different types of tongues so far. One is when a person speaks a language they do not know themselves in order to witness to someone who speaks that language already. And they can understand the foreign language speaker as well, which is the interpretation of tongues (languages).

The other is what you are speaking of, which is where a person will speak in one language, but people who speak a different language hear them in their own language. This tends to only happen when foreign language speakers walk into meetings where the speaker is speaking to a crowd, not directly to them. One of my friends told me about a French woman who walked into a Messianic Jewish meeting in Canada and heard a sermon and got saved. She said the man spoke the most beautiful french. The other people heard this and said, "The man was speaking Hewbrew, not French". So, this lady was given the gift of interpretation of tongues and heard tongues in her own language.

Those would be the two types of tongues I know of.

Then there's the jabber language that's faked, and there's the full-on demonic phenomenon where a person is speaking another language, but when identified and translated, they are cursing Jesus in an African tribal language.

[BlackSnake]

Speaking in Tongues
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
Paul was saying that the ability to prophesy, or interpret the Word of God, was more important than the ability to say something in an unknown tongue.


2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Someone that spoke in tongues understood the tongue/language himself. He knew he was communacating with God, but what value was the tongue if he could not convey the understanding to anyone else? If the tongue did not make sense to the others, the speaker was to keep quiet. If no one understood what he was saying, he should stop.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
This is one who clarifys the message givin, or explains it and gives a better perspective.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
If I were to go to say, Mexico and speak in English, I edify myself. But if someone were there to teach or translate would edify the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Paul is saying that he wished that all spoke several languages so they could reach more people. But what good in the gift if the church couldnt understand the one he knew. Thus saying that to have someone present to teach the interpratation is more important.

6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
An important part of this is to know that the Corinthians were sometimes proud, and some of those that could speak several languages did it in a show off kind of way. Paul's point was telling them that it served no purpose except for the speakers own/selfish revelation or knowledge.

7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
Lets say that I picked up a guitar and said that I was gonna play a song for you. I have no ability to play the song, even though I know what it is. My interpration of the song would be unreconizable. Now let Eric Clapton play it for you...

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
Make your words easy to be understood. Dont go over peoples heads with a bunch of hot air that is hard to understand just to make a bunch of noise. Again, the Corinthians were show offs. Sometimes babbling a bunch of words to look smarter than they were.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
Again, I go to Mexico. Two languages with signification: English and Spanish. But if we dont speak each others language, we are nothing more than barbarians to one another. We would look stupid trying to talk to each other in our own language.

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
In a attempt to keep the Corinthians to not boast in their "many" gifts, Paul wanted them to focus more on edifying the church.

13 ¶ Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Lets keep using Mexico as an example: If I could speak a little Spanish, but still, but not fluently, in essants its still a unknown language. But if I felt a passion to reach a Spanish speaking individual or church, I would pray that God would give the the ability to make what I/God has for them is made clear so they could be tought.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Verse 14 seems to contradict verse 4, which says that someone that speaks in an unknown tongue/language edifies only his self, but understands that tongue. So verse 14 should be understood the same. Someone who prays in an unknown tongue, his understanding is unfruitful "to others" unless the tongue is interpreted.


15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else, when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
This is to say that I will sing and pray with the spirit (as we all do) and in a language that others can understand too. This way when I finish a song or prayer, the others can say Amen.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
If I knew say 10 languages, and I gave you great Biblical teaching in 9 of them that you hadnt a clue as to what I said, would it not have been better that I spoke 5 words from God that you understood? Corinthians would babble off all kinds of teachings in many languages to show off their "profound" knowledge. Paul was saying, "give them something they can taste."

20 ¶ Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
I could go to Mexico and act as though I was giving a word or teaching of God in English. This is a warning to the Mexican church to be wise. I could be a imposter spreading, chanting and praying to the demonds. Its a word for them to be sharp and to not just let anyone in like a child might.

[BlackSnake]

21 In the law it is written,
With men of other tongues and other lips
will I speak unto this people;
and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Is. 28.11, 12
This is a referance from Isaiah to Isreal. Paul was saying “With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people (to Israel in the type and to the unlearned and unbelievers in the Gospel Age), yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord (because of hard hearts, blindness, and a willing ignorance).

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. Again, I go to Mexico. God has given me a word to take there. The word reaches a unbeliever, but doesnt have a clue as to what I'm saying. The one that interprets God's word then makes the tongue a sign to the unbeliever.

23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? Can you emagine what you'd think if you were to walk into a church and the whole place was babbling in 10 different languages? One would think the church has gone mad. This happend frequently in the Corinthian church. There was no organization. Just a lot of show offs boasting religious babble.

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
Now if everyone teaches and a unbeliever comes in, all are giving him sound scripture. He would then have the oppertunity to fall on his face and repent of his sins.

26 ¶ How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Nothing wrong with everyone having a gift. But if its all done out of order, there is no edifying to the church.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
You and I go to Mexico. We are going to be English speakers to a church or service. Its good that there are only two of us speaking, cause 5 or 6 of us would be hard to follow with a interpretor. But if there are no interpertors, we should of course be silent.


29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Same goes to profets. Let only 2 or 3 speak at a time and let them be judged. (For truth)

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
You and I are teaching. You are up 1st, and suddenly God gives me something to expound with, you would hold your peace so that I could expound.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
This goes with the verse above, that by you standing by for a 2nd, we can still maintain one by one instead of trying to talk over one another.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
The spirits of the prophets are "made" subject to the prophets. Paul was criticizing the order in the meeting.

34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
The women of Corinth were getting out of hand and assuming leadershipand they excessively adorned their heads and bodies.

36 What! came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
This question is for the women of the church in Corinth. Because of the actions of the women, Paul was addressing their behavior.

37 ¶ If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Paul was reminding the Corinthians that his apostleship was of a higher athority. They thought of themselves as high and mighty, and Paul said that if you think this, then you will agree that what I write comes from God. And if you think not, then so be your ignorance.

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
The people of Corinth were very educated, so it was nothing for them to speak several languages. The problem was that they all wanted to boast or show off with this gift. Paul wanted them to concentrate on prophesy. Not to forbid tongues, but to use the gift to interpret more so than to speak in tongues. To the Corinthians, teachng the word was more boastful than to simply explain or interpret.

40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

[BrianC]

I'm not going to respond to all of that. There's too much there and it would take far too long to go through it all. I'd suggest watching the video series I posted and I'd suggest reading demons in the church. There is a solid disproving of the unintelligible tongues in Demons in the Church.

Also, keep in mind that Paul says speaking in tongues doesn't edify the church, and yet he says that church is to edify. Therefore, speaking in tongues in church shouldn't be done according to Paul. He even said not to do it because people would come in, think you're drunk, and then leave. I know that feeling, because I've walked into churches doing that and had to force myself to stay there because it's very uncomfortable. Non-believers find it probably even more uncomfortable. It sure doesn't draw anyone in.

Do you speak in tongues by chance? What denomination are you?

[BrianC]

Oh, and again, the Pagans were speaking in "tongues" (babble language) long before Christ came around. And you never see Paul talking about speaking in any babble language. You see him only speaking in different languages without already knowing those languages and says it is a gift from God. On top of that, please show me how speaking in tongues helps anyone. Self-edification means that people are speaking in the babble language for their own purposes, and Paul says to stop. And when he says don't restrict them from speaking in tongues, he means not to restrict people from using tongues to prophesy to members of the church who speak a different language. Read Martyr's Mirror and you'll see what actual tongues is. The use of babble tongues is nearly non-existent from the Corinthian church up to the mid-1900s. The quakers began to bring it back first, though, but it didn't really take off till the mid-1900s.

You're welcome to believe what you wish, though. I'm just sharing something about tongues is all because someone asked me to make a thread about it.

[BlackSnake]

I'm not going to respond to all of that. There's too much there and it would take far too long to go through it all. I'd suggest watching the video series I posted and I'd suggest reading demons in the church. There is a solid disproving of the unintelligible tongues in Demons in the Church.

Also, keep in mind that Paul says speaking in tongues doesn't edify the church, and yet he says that church is to edify. Therefore, speaking in tongues in church shouldn't be done according to Paul. He even said not to do it because people would come in, think you're drunk, and then leave. I know that feeling, because I've walked into churches doing that and had to force myself to stay there because it's very uncomfortable. Non-believers find it probably even more uncomfortable. It sure doesn't draw anyone in.

Do you speak in tongues by chance? What denomination are you?

I'm independant baptist and no I do not speak any other tongue other than English. Of course you'd think I was drunk or out of my mind if I walked into a church and started teaching in Greek. You and the others would look at me as though "what the hell?" It's important that I speak to you in a tongue that you can understand or that someone is there to interpret.

[Txstang1]

Speaking in tongues is complete bullshit, plain and simple. I like it when they are talking in tongues and then the preacher starts yelling, goes up knocks them in the head and then they fall out in the holy spirit !!!! Fucking comedy gold, it's even funnier if you smoke a fatty and then watch it.