Hillary Clinton: ‘Religious Beliefs’ Are ‘Standing in the Way’ of Gay Rights

[GhostTX]

If you believe that man is essentially evil and incapable of acting without regard to consequences, then maybe so. The government as an entity can enforce behavioral legislation, but the legislation itself comes from what moral compass?

What'd the OWS camps degenerate to?

If you look at today's laws, at their basic level, they all come from the Bible.

[Forever_frost]

You mean this one?

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

They aren't abridging you of of anything, and you're equally protected under the laws.
You don't know what you're talking about.

Actually, I do. I pointed out hate crimes laws specifically. They are protected in ways that I am not, which is inherently not equal

[Baba Ganoush]

Think bigger. My pity is more mourning the fact that in this day and age people are so appalled by what consenting adults do to try and find happiness on this cold and worthless planet are so deserving of misguided ire. It's fucking sickening to me.

It's very simple: You stop tolerating things at the point when people start being harmed.

If it was that simple, I'd agree with your well spoken sentiments. It just reeks of a "alternate agendas". I understand the simple wishes of simple folks, but it seems it's being pushed in our face a little too much lately. I'll tolerate these folks and the changes they're bringing, but tolerance is something you build up over time, not overnight.

Equal, not special. Advocating for the restriction of someone else's desires is in itself seeking special treatment for your own - is it not?

Shyea, tell that to the tunnel vision, freight train of a movement that we're talking about here. They have made it clear that any opposition to their movement is considered bullying, hateful, and "ignorant". I'm still grasping with the fact that there are eight year olds in school that are proud to be gay. It's damn ridiculous if you ask me.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

What'd the OWS camps degenerate to?

If you look at today's laws, at their basic level, they all come from the Bible.

What any concentration of people degenerates to, I suppose. There are always going to be individuals acting counter to the benefit of the whole. I think a lot of the OWS crowd are simply ideologues, and the flavour du jour. I've not cared to really look into the demographics, but I don't imagine it's entirely a crowd of godless heathens.

Many of our laws do stem from the Bible, but in the absence of religious morality (for the moment and for the argument, suspend the existence of Christianity) we would, as a society, generally still work toward some overarching principals that generally benefits the whole. Atheists don't run amok because their moral compass is fouled, I'm sure most fit in as well as any other theists.

Morals (from my perspective, of course) are no different than behavioral legislation - they do not preclude abhorrent or deviant behavior any more than the absence of morals encourage abhorrent behavior. I think everyone, atheist and theist alike, can agree that in the cases of Catholic priests molesting children, they have gone beyond the bounds of religious morality. Given the consequences for hurting others, individuals still do so. I suppose all we can continue to do is uphold the penalties.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

If it was that simple, I'd agree with your well spoken sentiments. It just reeks of a "alternate agendas". I understand the simple wishes of simple folks, but it seems it's being pushed in our face a little too much lately. I'll tolerate these folks and the changes they're bringing, but tolerance is something you build up over time, not overnight.

That's fair. According to svo855, the alternate agendas are certainly cause for concern! I think taken at face value, what most of the simple folks want is tolerable.

Shyea, tell that to the tunnel vision, freight train of a movement that we're talking about here. They have made it clear that any opposition to their movement is considered bullying, hateful, and "ignorant". I'm still grasping with the fact that there are eight year olds in school that are proud to be gay. It's damn ridiculous if you ask me.

I'll agree. They cannot shove it in everyone's face and just expect people to go along. Racial bigotry didn't just evaporate because blacks (and whites) took to the streets, or the Civil Rights Act was passed. Gays parading around in banana hammocks & fairy outfits is a surefire way to ruin any solidarity they might find in just being seen as normal human beings.

[exlude]

don't start with the nature/genetic shit, can't be proven, whole other debate......you said I'm closed minded and that is totally inaccurate......no holes here, my logic is undeniable.

You are 100% wrong on the "nature/genetic shit", so allow me to deny your "undeniable" logic.

[The King]

Nope, no affiliation with any religion, but was raised baptist so that accounts for my moral stance.....don't start with the nature/genetic shit, can't be proven, whole other debate......you said I'm closed minded and that is totally inaccurate......no holes here, my logic is undeniable.

Doesn't matter whether or not one considers it a matter of nature/genetics. The Fall of Man corrupted all of Creation.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

I knew we were missing something here. It ain't a religious discussion until The King shows up.

[talisman]

Religion has no place in discussing people's rights. A person has the absolute right to Live their life as they see fit, as long as it doesn't cause harm to others.

[The King]

Religion has no place in discussing people's rights. A person has the absolute right to Live their life as they see fit, as long as it doesn't cause harm to others.

Appears that Hillary Clinton feels that religion (and cultural values) have a place in discussing people's rights. That's who this thread supposedly is about.

[The King]

I knew we were missing something here. It ain't a religious discussion until The King shows up.

I showed up in this thread yesterday, but not to discuss relgion but rather to disparage the U.N.

[racrguy]

Doesn't matter whether or not one considers it a matter of nature/genetics. The Fall of Man corrupted all of Creation.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

I showed up in this thread yesterday, but not to discuss relgion but rather to disparage the U.N.

Ah, so you did. I missed that one.

Carry on.

[racrguy]

Nope, no affiliation with any religion, but was raised baptist so that accounts for my moral stance.....don't start with the nature/genetic shit, can't be proven, whole other debate......you said I'm closed minded and that is totally inaccurate......no holes here, my logic is undeniable.


I don't need your pity, Eric.



Too fucking early to pick this up again....

No holes in your logic? I lol'd. The fact that you base your morals solely on the bible, which is an immoral book for all intents and purposes, is a major hole in logic.

[svauto-erotic855]

No holes in your logic? I lol'd. The fact that you base your morals solely on the bible, which is an immoral book for all intents and purposes, is a major hole in logic.

Racrguy, keep in mind that I live an alternative lifestyle and don't care how much dick you suck when I say this. The worlds 3 dominant religions prohibit homosexuality and have done so for a very long time. This will never change no mater how much you want it to. Currently in the world people are still executed for being homosexual and that practice is spreading. The system that permits you to openly be a homo is weakened by what you perceive as your civil rights. Soon that system will be degraded to a point that it can no longer protect you and people who share your beliefs and you may find yourself standing on the gallows with a noose around your neck just like the 1000's of other homos that have been executed world wide just this year. In other words; don't bite the hands that protect you by forcing an unwanted agenda do their throats.