Draft bill

[Moose242]

I understand what you are saying, we all do. But the whole point of this thread was discussing a draft. If your country called on you, I'd bet that you would be there. Might not like it, but you'd probably do it anyways.

It would depend solely on the circumstances. For example-

I would have fought in the Revolution. I would not have fought in the War of 1812. Would have fought in WWII, would not have fought in Vietnam.

Damn sure would dodge a draft if the fuck heads in the legislature decided it would be in America's interest to send me to Afghanistan or Iraq.

[slowyellow]

It would depend solely on the circumstances. For example-

I would have fought in the Revolution. I would not have fought in the War of 1812. Would have fought in WWII, would not have fought in Vietnam.

Damn sure would dodge a draft if the fuck heads in the legislature decided it would be in America's interest to send me to Afghanistan or Iraq.

Understand the feelings behind it, but very disappointed in the response.

[Moose242]

Understand the feelings behind it, but very disappointed in the response.

What would you be satisfied with?

"I would blindly serve my country no matter how immoral or wrong the conflict may be."

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

[slowyellow]

What would you be satisfied with?

"I would blindly serve my country no matter how immoral or wrong the conflict may be."

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

If the country that you, live in and enjoy the freedoms of called on you that you would serve for the time that they called on you for. Not saying that you'd like it, but as an american if is you're duty.

[Moose242]

If the country that you, live in and enjoy the freedoms of called on you that you would serve for the time that they called on you for. Not saying that you'd like it, but as an american if is you're duty.

So you would fight for your country under any circumstances? You wouldn't take a step back and weigh the morality of the situation?

I think the people of Germany did that back in the day. Worked out pretty well for them.

[slowyellow]

So you would fight for your country under any circumstances? You wouldn't take a step back and weigh the morality of the situation?

I think the people of Germany did that back in the day. Worked out pretty well for them.

They could have left. A lot more difficult for them then than anybody here now. That's all I'm saying. Is if you, or anyone for that matter, want to live here and enjoy our freedoms I think that you should serve if asked to by the country. You might not agree with the way that the country is going. Nobody is forcing you to live here.

I personally would blindly follow those above me because I took an oath "to support and defend the constitution of the united states of america against all enemies foreign and domestic..."

But from your spot, outside of the military, if they instituted a draft I would serve my time and get out if I opposed it that bad.

I like you man, but this is just a subject that I'm pretty hard headed about.

[Forever_frost]

And it's not like someone with the Doc's skills are going to be put on the front lines.

[JC316]

I fully agree that EVERY AMERICAN needs to serve in one of the Forces.
If you quit HS, gotta do minimum 3 years military.
If you graduate, time to go do your time.
If you're college bound, get your degree and then do you do a few years.

So essentially you want even more freedoms taken away. You want the government interfering with your life decisions? Sorry, but no.

I personally don't like the idea of taking a chance on dying for a bunch of powerful elitist who think it's my job to die for them.

+1000

I personally don't like the idea of people like you who want all the freedoms and opportunities America offers, yet you're unwilling to put your ass on the line to protect those very freedoms.

Freedoms, that is a laugh. Have you watched the news recently? This country is pretty damned far from the land of the free. Seriously, when is the last time anyone outside of our own government threatened our freedom? One terrorist attack isn't exactly a full scale invasion, but the "Security" laws that got passed because of it have sure as hell stripped freedom.

[ceyko]

So you would fight for your country under any circumstances? You wouldn't take a step back and weigh the morality of the situation?

I think the people of Germany did that back in the day. Worked out pretty well for them.

I would too, under any legal orders and circumstances.

Either you follow orders, or you don't. In my opinion, either you man up or you don't.

Although, I do understand where you're coming from 110%. Vietnam is an even better example than OIF/OEF of a war we should never have been in. OIF/OEF are generally wars the American public supported and even if you don't like that we went - initially there were missions to be done.

Either way, if there is a draft and you run from it; you're a pussy in my book.

[ceyko]

So essentially you want even more freedoms taken away. You want the government interfering with your life decisions? Sorry, but no.

You realize back in the day when there were no drafts, able bodied folks generally nutted up and served in one way or another?

I generally feel that people hide behind "freedom" and "rights" when it's more along the lines of...

-Being scared of wars, the training, leaving home...etc (see this one a lot)
-Would not make the cut for whatever reason
-Feeling service to the country is beneath them (Suspect this one a lot)
-Lazy (see this one a lot too)
-Just flat out hating the idea of getting dirty and all that is entailed with signing up, officer or enlisted

I could be wrong, because I cannot imagine having not served at least 2 years. If you don't make the cut due to brain power, some physical issue...etc - that's one thing. You can't necessarily control that at all, the rest - blame it on what you want - but at the end of the day you're choosing not to serve.

[jasonw_2005]

I would fight if there was a legitimate threat to my individual freedom, but fuck conscription that does nothing but send young men to fight in pointless proxy wars.

This is the point I was trying to make yesterday. If this country is under a legitimate threat yeah I would go fight. But I'm not gonna go fight in a war that serves no damn purpose other than to make some fuckhead in D.C happy.

[onemeangixxer7502]

I understand where everyone is coming from, I also think people should do a mandatory 2 years in the armed forces. If you made people do it and showed them the regimented lifestyle eventually you'd start weeding out those who want something for nothing. either way, I'm wondering what the next big war will be. Fought over land? "freedom" water?

[Broncojohnny]

If the country that you, live in and enjoy the freedoms of called on you that you would serve for the time that they called on you for. Not saying that you'd like it, but as an american if is you're duty.

Yea, it is my "duty" to go serve on a jury too. What a fucking waste of my time.

I'm with DOHCTR on this. If there is a legitimate threat I would go. Hell, honestly I'd love to go, it would be a hell of an experience. Someone invades our soil? Invades Britain? Sign me the fuck up. But to go to some shit war that these fuckheads have started here lately? No fucking way I'm interested in that nonsense.

Really, I don't think this is even a conversation worth having, as we'll always have more than enough people sign up for these half assed nation building wars where we aren't doing anything but saving Halliburton's and KBR's share price.

[ceyko]

Really, I don't think this is even a conversation worth having, as we'll always have more than enough people sign up for these half assed nation building wars where we aren't doing anything but saving Halliburton's and KBR's share price.

That's your fault, mine and everyone else's fault about the corruption. The military, at its roots only knows missions.

Also, for years you'd never get deployed (In an SFOR/IFOR/OIF/OEF type manner - maybe Korea...etc). What was your excuse in the 80s, 90s? Too young?

We participated in a NATO event in the 90s in BiH and a few other places that made a real difference.

Afghanistan/Iraq...etc - We DID make a difference, but at this point they don't want to help themselves.

Generally the way we're run now, you'll never get a chance to serve. If we get invaded somehow, you'll probably be too worried about family and other things. That's a big reason you don't see a lot of late 20s, early 30s E-1s. If you don't get in early, you get anchored.

I won't lie, now that I have my family - I'll step up and protect them in that situation - but my soldiering days are over. Even my ready reserve type days are over. If I were to get drafted at this older age, I'd go only if my family was in a safe place (in the event of some sort of invasion). Otherwise, I'd rather just hunker down or if available participate with a militia.

The truth is we don't have enough regular military folks. That's why we're tapping the reserve/national guard type units - over and over and over again. That's why our soldiers (at least 1 year tours, not sure about Marine...AF is short) are going on 8+ tours and can't possibly be right again.

They realistically need young bright minds. That's the military. You/I and our population's job is to make it so we don't need that many people. Even in peacetime though, the military needs people. It's better to be combat ready in an active duty unit if we get invaded than at home on the couch. Also people are constantly discharged, die, retire and so forth. Got to keep the ranks fresh.

I still hold to my thinking that a lot of people don't join for all of the reasons I listed earlier. Especially at 18, MOST don't even get corruption and all that crap. Much-less at 16/17 when you can actually enlist. Then you get older and use everything else as an excuse as to why you did not do it when younger. If someone truly did not enlist/serve because of corruption - great, otherwise I'm not buying it. There is nothing wrong with the truth of not serving, but for some I think it maybe a tough pill to swallow - especially if it could be one of the reasons that may make you look like a wuss or not patriotic (which is a card I use a lot, but should not do - but I don't understand why everyone does not want to do at least a 3 year stint).

heh, I have a friend who did not join the Marines because he was afraid of being homesick. Well, he got be homesick 4 years in jail.

Anyways, I'm babbling and borderline insulting people which is not my intention. If you did not serve - just be honest why you did not. There are numerous other reasons besides the ones I listed (to include criminal mistakes when younger...etc) - but generally a lot of people fall into those areas.

Take care,

[JC316]

You realize back in the day when there were no drafts, able bodied folks generally nutted up and served in one way or another?

I generally feel that people hide behind "freedom" and "rights" when it's more along the lines of...

-Being scared of wars, the training, leaving home...etc (see this one a lot)
-Would not make the cut for whatever reason
-Feeling service to the country is beneath them (Suspect this one a lot)
-Lazy (see this one a lot too)
-Just flat out hating the idea of getting dirty and all that is entailed with signing up, officer or enlisted

I could be wrong, because I cannot imagine having not served at least 2 years. If you don't make the cut due to brain power, some physical issue...etc - that's one thing. You can't necessarily control that at all, the rest - blame it on what you want - but at the end of the day you're choosing not to serve.

Yeah, but back in the day, we didn't just jump in to save the day with every single problem in the world. I just don't feel like stepping up to bat for a bunch of foreigners that don't give a shit when there are enough problems back in the USA.

I would expect that a lot of people don't want to join for all of the reasons that you listed, but I think that it should be their right to not want to join for those reasons. Me personally, I have medical issues that wouldn't suit to being a soldier. I have all the respect in the world for the people that are soldiers, hell my grandad was a medic in Korea and my dad was drafted in Vietnam, but I don't think that should be forced on anyone.