Evolution: The Grand Experiment

[The King]

Let's just this once take what this post says at face value and being true (because frankly I don't feel like researching it) cancer is NOT caused by a demon, possession, or some other form of theist mumbo jumbo magic.

True to some extent. Cancer, along with any number of other genetically-linked illnesses, is a result of our corrupted world. Research into the mechanics that facilitate the manifestations of these illnesses in no way conflicts with that.

[BrianC]

Let's just this once take what this post says at face value and being true (because frankly I don't feel like researching it) cancer is NOT caused by a demon, possession, or some other form of theist mumbo jumbo magic.

I'll share a story documented in two different books. One is documented in Henry Wright's book A More Excellent Way, and he tells about the other book that documents the same story. There was a lady with breast cancer in both breast. Wright had figured out that breast cancer in the right breast was caused by bitterness (lack of forgiveness) toward a related female, and in the left breast it was caused by bitterness toward an unrelated female. I assume it has to be extreme bitterness held over many many years and that it happens more quickly in people with worse health because their bodies can't fight off the cancer so easily as others can.

The lady comes to Wright and asks what's causing her breast cancer. He asks her if there is a woman she's upset with. She says yes, a lady she works with. He says, "What good does it do to hold a grudge?" She says it doesn't do anyone any good. He says, "Good! Forgive her." The lady says she'll go ahead and forgive her. The lady leaves, then comes back a week or so later. She says, "I can't believe it, but a day (or two, don't remember exactly) after I saw you last, the cancer in my left breast went away. But I don't understand. It's still present in my right breast." He says, "Is there a relative who is female and you are upset with about something?" She says yes, her mother-in-law. He says, "What good does it do to hold a grudge?" She says it doesn't and that she will forgive her. She does and the cancer in the left breast goes away within a few days. Wright didn't know she was seeing another pastor at the same time who was also writing a book. He and this other pastor he didn't know wrote about this woman's case, so it was confirmed from two unassociated sources.

Now, normally, I would be objective and say, "The mind is a powerful thing. It has a ton of control over the body. Maybe because it was suggested that this lady could forgive and the cancer would go away her mind made it happen." But there's a problem with that logic. She thought the cancer in both breasts would go away, but only the cancer in the left breast went away. Why Wright didn't deal with both issues at once, I have no idea. Maybe he didn't quite know for sure at the time what caused what and he was still sort of testing the waters. Maybe that helped him solidify what caused what exactly. Either way, it wasn't a case where the mind did it. It had to do with specific sins.

I'd also like to add that I don't recommend Wrights books or methods or beliefs. While the Bible does teach that sin causes illness and disease, Wright has taken it to a self-serving level for people. If you want better health, just repent of a sin and that will take care of it. It's very selfish and not about God at all but more about "what can I get?". In reality, we should teach people to get close to God and He will change their heart and they'll want to repent of their sins out of love for Him, not selfishness, and their health will get better.

As for me, I was sick quite a bit with allergies and sinus infections and colds growing up. I got saved at age 16 and didn't get sick for years, till I got back into doing some very sinful stuff again. I assume the guilt caused my mind to not function quite as well and the stress took its toll on my body. Though, I guess it was a bit of that and a bit of sin caused issues. Either way, I stopped doing those things and my health got better and better as I eliminated sins out of my life, and this was well before I was informed that sin caused illnesses and disease. Right after I was saved, I noticed how the Bible taught sin caused the body to degenerate and die. I just didn't ever think of sin causing specific illnesses till many years later after reading Wright's stuff.

Believe what you will. I'm just sharing info.

[BrianC]

True to some extent. Cancer, along with any number of other genetically-linked illnesses, is a result of our corrupted world. Research into the mechanics that facilitate the manifestations of these illnesses in no way conflicts with that.

Deuteronomy 28 says that if a person disobeys God (sins), one of the results is every disease and sickness. Something to that extent. I'd look up the verse to get it accurate, but I don't want to wade through that insanely long chapter right now to find it. The Jews knew this, because in the Gospels they ask Jesus if the blind man is blind because he sinned in the womb or because of a sin his parents committed. Jesus says that in this case it's neither, because this man was blind to show God's glory when Jesus healed him. Also, 50% of the time when Jesus heals someone, He doesn't say "be healed" and they're healed. He says, "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more, lest something worse happens to you." and then they are healed instantly with the forgiveness of sins, implying sin has a role in the illness or disease.

[davbrucas]

Dude, your body maintains a very tight pH range of the blood. It never reaches extreme ranges unless you are extremely ill and near death. Your body is very efficient at buffering acidic environments because our metabolism produces acidic by products and we are well adapted to it. On the other hand, we dont have a good alkaline buffer system. There are 3 major ways that the body buffers acid. NaHCO3-Carbonic Anhydrase system (major acid-base buffer), respiratory system to blow off CO2, and the kidneys to regulate H+ excretion. What you are talking about with minerals is a very small part of the overall buffer system. If you are stating that you are testing your blood at times and it reads 6.5 then you are FOS. You would be dead long before your pH reaches that level. Dude, get your histrionic personality disorder and your schizophrenia in check before posting. All you do on here is bait people into an argument and then slam them using your flawed logic and made-up/exaggerated resources. You could be an asset in this forum if you would just state your knowledge of the Bible and religion and leave all of the other condescending extracurricular stuff out of here.

[The King]

Deuteronomy 28 says that if a person disobeys God (sins), one of the results is every disease and sickness. Something to that extent. I'd look up the verse to get it accurate, but I don't want to wade through that insanely long chapter right now to find it. The Jews knew this, because in the Gospels they ask Jesus if the blind man is blind because he sinned in the womb or because of a sin his parents committed. Jesus says that in this case it's neither, because this man was blind to show God's glory when Jesus healed him. Also, 50% of the time when Jesus heals someone, He doesn't say "be healed" and they're healed. He says, "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more, lest something worse happens to you." and then they are healed instantly with the forgiveness of sins, implying sin has a role in the illness or disease.

Agreed, refer also to my previous posts #12 and #23 in this thread.

[Txstang1]

Lol at demons and shit. And lol harder and pentacostals talking in tongues being demon possessed. The whole talking in tongues bullshit is just that, bullshit, even though I was told it was the holy spirit manifesting itself, which i called bullshit on when i was 13 years old.

And laughing even harder at tongues being traced to other languages and being deemed demonic. Same thing the bible thumping wack jobs were saying about BOC, black sabbath, etc back in the day regarding playing the records backwards.

Definitely some Fucking wack jobs up in hurra.

[racrguy]

I'll share a story documented in two different books. One is documented in Henry Wright's book A More Excellent Way, and he tells about the other book that documents the same story. There was a lady with breast cancer in both breast. Wright had figured out that breast cancer in the right breast was caused by bitterness (lack of forgiveness) toward a related female, and in the left breast it was caused by bitterness toward an unrelated female. I assume it has to be extreme bitterness held over many many years and that it happens more quickly in people with worse health because their bodies can't fight off the cancer so easily as others can.

The lady comes to Wright and asks what's causing her breast cancer. He asks her if there is a woman she's upset with. She says yes, a lady she works with. He says, "What good does it do to hold a grudge?" She says it doesn't do anyone any good. He says, "Good! Forgive her." The lady says she'll go ahead and forgive her. The lady leaves, then comes back a week or so later. She says, "I can't believe it, but a day (or two, don't remember exactly) after I saw you last, the cancer in my left breast went away. But I don't understand. It's still present in my right breast." He says, "Is there a relative who is female and you are upset with about something?" She says yes, her mother-in-law. He says, "What good does it do to hold a grudge?" She says it doesn't and that she will forgive her. She does and the cancer in the left breast goes away within a few days. Wright didn't know she was seeing another pastor at the same time who was also writing a book. He and this other pastor he didn't know wrote about this woman's case, so it was confirmed from two unassociated sources.

Now, normally, I would be objective and say, "The mind is a powerful thing. It has a ton of control over the body. Maybe because it was suggested that this lady could forgive and the cancer would go away her mind made it happen." But there's a problem with that logic. She thought the cancer in both breasts would go away, but only the cancer in the left breast went away. Why Wright didn't deal with both issues at once, I have no idea. Maybe he didn't quite know for sure at the time what caused what and he was still sort of testing the waters. Maybe that helped him solidify what caused what exactly. Either way, it wasn't a case where the mind did it. It had to do with specific sins.

I'd also like to add that I don't recommend Wrights books or methods or beliefs. While the Bible does teach that sin causes illness and disease, Wright has taken it to a self-serving level for people. If you want better health, just repent of a sin and that will take care of it. It's very selfish and not about God at all but more about "what can I get?". In reality, we should teach people to get close to God and He will change their heart and they'll want to repent of their sins out of love for Him, not selfishness, and their health will get better.

As for me, I was sick quite a bit with allergies and sinus infections and colds growing up. I got saved at age 16 and didn't get sick for years, till I got back into doing some very sinful stuff again. I assume the guilt caused my mind to not function quite as well and the stress took its toll on my body. Though, I guess it was a bit of that and a bit of sin caused issues. Either way, I stopped doing those things and my health got better and better as I eliminated sins out of my life, and this was well before I was informed that sin caused illnesses and disease. Right after I was saved, I noticed how the Bible taught sin caused the body to degenerate and die. I just didn't ever think of sin causing specific illnesses till many years later after reading Wright's stuff.

Believe what you will. I'm just sharing info.

Every claim that religions have made that have been tested, where they can be tested have been found to be false.

I believe things to be true because they can be proven. The sky is blue because of the gasses in it, the grass is green because of the chlorophyll, not because some magic man in the sky willed it to be so. How can someone with the power that you claim him to have be so incredibly inept at conveying simple messages?

[BERNIE MOSFET]

Every claim that religions have made that have been tested, where they can be tested have been found to be false.

I believe things to be true because they can be proven. The sky is blue because of the gasses in it, the grass is green because of the cellulose, not because some magic man in the sky willed it to be so. How can someone with the power that you claim him to have be so incredibly inept at conveying simple messages?

Psst, you meant to say chlorophyll, not cellulose.

[Nash B.]

Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!

[davbrucas]

Psst, you meant to say chlorophyll, not cellulose.

Beat me to it. But we understood the point he was making. The Christian argument will be that God has helped man understand his environment over the years. People back in biblical times were less adept at understanding science like we do today. I, on the other hand, believe it's Occam's Razor...and the simple answer is that God does not exist and was created by man as a way to explain the world around him. Now we have evolved technologically to where we dont need God as an explanation.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

Chlorophyll? More like borophyll!

I see what you did there.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

Beat me to it. But we understood the point he was making. The Christian argument will be that God has helped man understand his environment over the years. People back in biblical times were less adept at understanding science like we do today. I, on the other hand, believe it's Occam's Razor...and the simple answer is that God does not exist and was created by man as a way to explain the world around him. Now we have evolved technologically to where we dont need God as an explanation.

His point was solid, just a minor correction.

There is also something definitely disconcerting about not knowing why anything exists, let alone explaining how it all works together. God fills that void nicely. I have fewer qualms with the notion of God than the human manifestations of religion.

[davbrucas]

His point was solid, just a minor correction.

There is also something definitely disconcerting about not knowing why anything exists, let alone explaining how it all works together. God fills that void nicely. I have fewer qualms with the notion of God than the human manifestations of religion.

Yup. I dont have all the answers and God may exist, but our current understanding of God is absurd at best.

[racrguy]

Beat me to it. But we understood the point he was making. The Christian argument will be that God has helped man understand his environment over the years. People back in biblical times were less adept at understanding science like we do today. I, on the other hand, believe it's Occam's Razor...and the simple answer is that God does not exist and was created by man as a way to explain the world around him. Now we have evolved technologically to where we dont need God as an explanation.

D'OH! I knew it was one of those C words I'm with you on this part though.

[The King]

His point was solid, just a minor correction.

There is also something definitely disconcerting about not knowing why anything exists, let alone explaining how it all works together. God fills that void nicely. I have fewer qualms with the notion of God than the human manifestations of religion.

God does indeed fill that void. Humankind also tries to fill that void, but fails, through vain attempts at pigeonholing and theorizing creation into terms that will neatly fit within the limits of human understanding. Mankind has been trying to write his own rules since Adam and Eve, and nothing's changed yet.