Is there a such thing as a Christian?

[The King]

i grew up in church (stepfather and his father were ministers) and read the bible in it's entirety. the main thing i really can't wrap my head around is the following: if you are a christian that believes in the bible then you have 2 outcomes to the end of your life; go to heaven, or go to hell. now, how can any person be considered truly good, or christian when given an ultimatum like that? of course, anyone who is sane will want to go to heaven which means the only reason the great majority of christians go to church and accept jesus is the reward of heaven; not because they truly have faith in jesus. how many christians would do you think there would be if the believers didn't benefit in the end, but instead were punished, or there was no benefit at all? IMO those would be the true christains, but we can never really know who they are because the ultimatum chooses for them. this very reason is one of the reasons why i am not christain. the christian values are great, and i wish everyone could follow them without being coaxed by the promise of heaven. i just try and be a morally good person the best i can.

in short it is my belief that the threat of hell/ promise of heaven forces you into being good instead of letting you make the choice for yourself. this is why you see so many people who call themselves christian, but by the bibles definition they are definitely going to hell.

Good post, but the following refutes some of what you have said.

First, if one accepts Jesus, they truly will have faith in Him. There is no "faking it", as in going to church and merely saying you accept Jesus without actually having faith in Him. To do so is meaningless.

Second, if you have read the Bible in its entirety you must have forgotten the part about how good deeds in and of themselves are not the means by which one gets to Heaven. You stated that the threat of hell/promise of heaven forces you into being "good", while the Bible makes no such statements. Rather:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Quite plainly stated that only faith and God's grace leads to Salvation, not one's good works.

[jnobles06]

Good post, but the following refutes some of what you have said.

First, if one accepts Jesus, they truly will have faith in Him. There is no "faking it", as in going to church and merely saying you accept Jesus without actually having faith in Him. To do so is meaningless.

Second, if you have read the Bible in its entirety you must have forgotten the part about how good deeds in and of themselves are not the means by which one gets to Heaven. You stated that the threat of hell/promise of heaven forces you into being "good", while the Bible makes no such statements. Rather:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Quite plainly stated that only faith and God's grace leads to Salvation, not one's good works.

crap. i just had a whole long response typed out and i hit the back button on the wrong tab. lol.

anyways...... you are correct, i haven't picked up a bible in quite some time and i'd be a fool to argue with you about it. i was trying to appeal to logic rather than religion. my point is that when given a positive and negative outcome it is human instinct to pick the positive. in this case it is the afterlife, and the condition to the positive outcome would be to accept jesus, and go to hell if you don't. this ultimatum is what robs the person of making the right choice and accepting jesus just based on their faith in him alone. if you make the right choice for the wrong reason, then you are not sincere because you had an ulterior motive. basically the average christian focuses more on heaven or hell more than faith in christ. it's basically demagoguery that urges the person to accept jesus, not their faith in him.

if most christians had the faith described in the bible the world would be far different. probably have mountains in different places. lol.

[jnobles06]

matthew 19:24

i am a firm believer in this verse. i believe that all religions will get you to the same place. it's not about the religion itself, IMO it's about spirituality. if you deny everything physical you can achieve permanent bliss. to have good there has to be evil, but to achieve the permanent bliss (heaven) you must transcend the ideas of good/ evil (because god is both alpha/omega beginning and end), and be content with existence itself, which i believe is impossible in physical form.

[The King]

Both of the above were good posts. I would think that a person who does good works under the name of Christianity, only to earn an eternal reward, is acting somewhat selfishly. Even that is better though than the alternative of committing works of evil, which nearly always lead to the detriment of others.

In Biblical terms, at least as I have read it, true faith in Christ will always be followed by good works, albeit with some stumbles along the way.

[talisman]

I don't believe in Christians. Every "Christian" I have ever talked to has said that anyone that doesn't follow ::: insert their random explanation for what defines a "True Christian"::: is not a true Christian. Then I watch that person do the exact same thing. Frankly, it confuses the hell out of me. I know we've all got a hypocritical bend inherent in our nature as a species, but most of us at least realize when we're blatantly doing it. It's like a snipe hunt.

[jdgregory84]

A christian is somebody that kills muslims in the name of god. At least it used to be.....back in the good ole days.

[Denny]

A christian is somebody that kills muslims in the name of god. At least it used to be.....back in the good ole days.

Sounds like you've got somce catching up to do.

[The King]

A christian is somebody that kills muslims in the name of god. At least it used to be.....back in the good ole days.

Now radical Muslims kill everyone else for political gain while hiding behind the name of Allah (not to mention hiding behind their own women and children), making these their good old days.

[racrguy]

A christian is somebody that kills muslims in the name of god. At least it used to be.....back in the good ole days.

Sounds like you've got somce catching up to do.

Yeah, now they just tell people in Africa that condoms are against gods word, and to use them will send you straight to hell. While the christians don't directly do the killing, they help spread the AIDS virus like wildfire with rhetoric like that. Without first rate medicine, AIDS is a death sentence.

[Denny]

Yeah, now they just tell people in Africa that condoms are against gods word, and to use them will send you straight to hell. While the christians don't directly do the killing, they help spread the AIDS virus like wildfire with rhetoric like that. Without first rate medicine, AIDS is a death sentence.

Are you seriously blaming the spread of AIDS in Africa on Christians... and comparing it to the Crusades?!

Holy shit, that's hilarious!!!

It wouldn't have been so funny if I thought you might actually just tried to make a joke, but I really think you think that.

Way to carry out your Crusade, bro. Your hate for Christianity is making you sound more and more idiotic each day.

[The King]

Are you seriously blaming the spread of AIDS in Africa on Christians... and comparing it to the Crusades?!

Holy shit, that's hilarious!!!

It wouldn't have been so funny if I thought you might actually just tried to make a joke, but I really think you think that.

Way to carry out your Crusade, bro. Your hate for Christianity is making you sound more and more idiotic each day.

Any time someone uses the terms "I heard", "they say", or "they tell" in a sentence it's a dead giveaway the writer hasn't a clue of what they are talking about. Going further, any post by this racrguy character about Christianity is a dead giveaway that the wrtiter hasn't a clue of what they are talking about.

[racrguy]

Are you seriously blaming the spread of AIDS in Africa on Christians... and comparing it to the Crusades?!

Holy shit, that's hilarious!!!

It wouldn't have been so funny if I thought you might actually just tried to make a joke, but I really think you think that.

Way to carry out your Crusade, bro. Your hate for Christianity is making you sound more and more idiotic each day.

Instead of christians helping, they're hurting from what I've seen. I dislike christianity for a myriad of reason, I also like christianity for a myriad of reasons, none of which are idiotic. But you calling anything idiotic, the man who believes in an invisible guy in the sky, who's son was himself, and also happens to be a zombie, is ironic.

[racrguy]

Any time someone uses the terms "I heard", "they say", or "they tell" in a sentence it's a dead giveaway the writer hasn't a clue of what they are talking about. Going further, any post by this racrguy character about Christianity is a dead giveaway that the wrtiter hasn't a clue of what they are talking about.

Yet again you've proven you have no clue what you're talking about. Unless you see something first hand you have to take what people say and the evidence they provide and evaluate it. Which will require the use of those terms. I know you're used to dealing in absolutes, but I'll hint something to you, nothing is ever standing still, everything changes, therefore it is difficult to have absolutes unless you're talking about the past. And even then you've got to have proof to claim something as an absolute.

[Denny]

Instead of christians helping, they're hurting from what I've seen. I dislike christianity for a myriad of reason, I also like christianity for a myriad of reasons, none of which are idiotic. But you calling anything idiotic, the man who believes in an invisible guy in the sky, who's son was himself, and also happens to be a zombie, is ironic.

"Nu-uh... YOU'RE the idiot!"

You sure told me. Do you think anyone actually takes you seriously?

[racrguy]

"Nu-uh... YOU'RE the idiot!"

You sure told me. Do you think anyone actually takes you seriously?

To your first statement. Your hatred for the Islamic faith is making you sound more and more idiotic every day.

See what I did there? We can play this game all day long.

In regards to your second: No, but your question is posed with the insinuation that I care if people take me seriously.

The OP has questions regarding if there are any "true" christians left. Instead of giving him an objective yes or no answer with an explanation, you try to feed him extraneous BS. I'll quote you the correct answer to his question.

To the O/P. The fact is, if someone says they are a christian and they believe the christian dogma and tenets, then they are a true christian. Regardless of their actions, they may be shitty people, they are still christians. Christians aren't defined by their actions, they're defined by their beliefs. Hitler is a self professed Roman Catholic, do his actions against millions of people somehow detract from his catholic faith? No. But he was a shitty person.