Is there a such thing as a Christian?

[The King]

I know what you're saying, a true Christian will believe the Bible word for word. I hope I don't offend anyone with the way I see the Bible since it does not make any sense to me in a lot of areas and I can never find any straight answers without being frowned upon and hear devoted Christians say I am going to hell.

I haven't read this in a long time but if my memory serves me right, Adam was made from dirt. Eve was made from Adam's rib, which will be the same DNA as Adam. The two lovebirds have multiple children and so on, wouldn't this be incest which is frowned upon today? This is one of the many things I don't really believe in the Bible and I hope I don't offend anyone because I can't understand that.

I would suggest not trying to pigeonhole what God has done and can do into the limitations of human perception, understanding, and science. Read the Bible with an open mind and listen for what says to you on an individual basis, without concern for what outside influences of this world are promoting or claiming.

Well, you didn't offend me I am not trying to start an arguement with anyone. There a lot of things I don't understand and have not found the answers other than because the Bible told me so. As you know the Bible is confusing to most people and cannot understand some of it, it seems people take what they read and make their own beliefs because they don't understand it or don't care to.

You are correct about people hating on Christians due to their actions and their beliefs. Christians do the same to people who believe but don't understand several things about the Bible. I have been to several churches in my short life and when I didn't understand something or wasn't sure with what was preached that day, the preacher and other Christians have told me I am the Anti-Christ and trying to turn everyone against God. Their actions and statements toward me are very unchristian and really makes me wonder what to believe since I don't write a check for a thousand dollars and put it in the plate every time I went to church.

The bolded part sounds more than just a little far-fetched. Either you're leaving something else out or you were not in a (by any definition) Christian church.

[slostang281]

Shit like that is why I take issue with many churches. Obviouly, the "popular Christian churches" would rather not have me around and vice versa. My "religion" is nothing more than my personal relationship with God. Anything more to that, like these certain denominations' certain rituals, rules, etc. do nothing more than take away from God. I know many Christians hate to hear that from me, but they can go pound dirt for all I care. Christianity should be nothing more than each person's personal relationship with God. If one truly goes by what Christ says, He completely dissolved the common structure of the Israelites' religious/political structure by making Himself everyone's High Priest, thus making the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Sanhedrin obsolite since they were basically screwing it all up by the time He got there.

I could see church as a way for fellow believers to fellowship, discuss THEIR beliefs and help others understand and network to spread God's love and message- even through missions and community outreaches... NOT to instill rules and rituals.

I am liking the way you think. I believe you don't have to go to church to be a Christian but since I have two preachers in the family, the family thinks differently. Church to me is anywhere you worship God whether it be at home, work, friend's house or wherever.

[slostang281]

I would suggest not trying to pigeonhole what God has done and can do into the limitations of human perception, understanding, and science. Read the Bible with an open mind and listen for what says to you on an individual basis, without concern for what outside influences of this world are promoting or claiming.




The bolded part sounds more than just a little far-fetched. Either you're leaving something else out or you were not in a (by any definition) Christian church.

Well, if I read the Bible with an open mind then I get lost and don't know the difference between a hole in the ground and my butt. I am one of those people who wants to understand every little detail. If I don't understand it and my kids come home from church and ask a question I don't have a clue on it, what am I going to tell them? Go talk to the preacher? I know for a fact that doesn't work.

You are saying that's a little far fetched. I am guessing you have been to one church your life and have not had to try to find another one. I was raised a Baptist and tried sticking to my roots in this town since I moved here about 15 years ago and there is basically only one Baptist church here. The church seems to be more worried about money than anything. It has been remodeled every 4-5 years, two story, and all the higher class people go there. The other Baptist churches have closed doors because they weren't getting the funds over the past several years. From what I was told by the one preacher was if I didn't contribute larger sums of money to the plate I was the Anti-Christ and a bunch of other shit because I was questioning what he preached since I didn't comprehend all of it. I believe that church was more about the money than the actual word of God. I also gathered since I was not there my entire life or didn't make six figures, they didn't want anything to do with me since I was not "one of their own".

[The King]

That only supports my speculation that you were not in a Christian Church. An organization simply claiming by name to be a Baptist Church does not make it Christian.

[slostang281]

Yup, but how can a person find out what's a good church or just a building with the word church on it? I wouldn't be surprised if they were something similar to Westboro or the Polygamist church/ YFZ Ranch thing that was here. That deal kinda killed my going for church as I am hard to please as far as church and they way they handle things around here. Thinking about trying different churches around here but I know nothing about other religions. I don't know what's the actual difference other than Catholic. What are you beliefs about going to a church if you don't mind me asking?

[racrguy]

Well, you either obviously didn't read my post, didn't comprehend what I typed or just trying to make an argument about it. Christians know they fall short of God's expectations and know they NEED to have Jesus as their Savior. They know that there is no way to be perfect in God's eyes other than to be forgiven because God not only forgives, but forgets.

As far as being judgemental and hypocritical, once again, you're missing it (we'll leave out racrguy since he's just a shit-starter on the subject and just looking for an argument). I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that you're actually looking for answers and not just trying to get a debate going.

Most people look at Christians as being hypocritical because they do as much bad shit as anyone else. It's called being human. There is no way any of us can go without sinning. If we were sinless, we wouldn't need Christ. We just know what we need.

As far as being judgemental, that's another part of being human. Most Christian haters focus more on Christians' actions than anyone else, so oh well. But if you're talking about them saying something like, "If you don't repent and accept Jesus, you'll go to hell." then that's not being judgemental, rather letting you know the truth. Not to force it on you, but put it out there for you and letting you make your own decision what to do from there.

Sorry if that offends you, but I really don't care. It is what it is.

Once again we come to "the truth" problem. Something is only true once it has been proven, until such time it's all conjecture. This has been explained to you more than once.

Shit like that is why I take issue with many churches. Obviouly, the "popular Christian churches" would rather not have me around and vice versa. My "religion" is nothing more than my personal relationship with God. Anything more to that, like these certain denominations' certain rituals, rules, etc. do nothing more than take away from God. I know many Christians hate to hear that from me, but they can go pound dirt for all I care. Christianity should be nothing more than each person's personal relationship with God. If one truly goes by what Christ says, He completely dissolved the common structure of the Israelites' religious/political structure by making Himself everyone's High Priest, thus making the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Sanhedrin obsolite since they were basically screwing it all up by the time He got there.

How exactly does someone have a personal relationship with another person that they can't communicate, nor meet?

I could see church as a way for fellow believers to fellowship, discuss THEIR beliefs and help others understand and network to spread God's love and message- even through missions and community outreaches... NOT to instill rules and rituals.

Gods love and message? Like the whole part about slaves, beating/killing women/children/entire towns? Yep, sounds like a really loving god and a wholesome message for children to me.

I would suggest not trying to pigeonhole what God has done and can do into the limitations of human perception, understanding, and science. Read the Bible with an open mind and listen for what says to you on an individual basis, without concern for what outside influences of this world are promoting or claiming.

If something is unable to be perceived, measured, or tested, that sounds an awful lot like non-existence to me.

The bolded part sounds more than just a little far-fetched. Either you're leaving something else out or you were not in a (by any definition) Christian church.

Not far-fetched. You question someones beliefs and automatically you're Anti-whatever the belief is, to people who don't have a good answer for the question. It's just easier to label you as Anti-belief and have you ostracized than it is to actually come up with a well thought out answer. I'd also like to point out the use of the No true Scotsman fallacy.

Seriously, you guys keep saying the same things over and over again and expect them to gain credibility or factuality?

To the O/P. The fact is, if someone says they are a christian and they believe the christian dogma and tenets, then they are a true christian. Regardless of their actions, they may be shitty people, they are still christians. Christians aren't defined by their actions, they're defined by their beliefs. Hitler is a self professed Roman Catholic, do his actions against millions of people somehow detract from his catholic faith? No. But he was a shitty person.

[racrguy]

I am liking the way you think. I believe you don't have to go to church to be a Christian but since I have two preachers in the family, the family thinks differently. Church to me is anywhere you worship God whether it be at home, work, friend's house or wherever.

Yup, but how can a person find out what's a good church or just a building with the word church on it? I wouldn't be surprised if they were something similar to Westboro or the Polygamist church/ YFZ Ranch thing that was here. That deal kinda killed my going for church as I am hard to please as far as church and they way they handle things around here. Thinking about trying different churches around here but I know nothing about other religions. I don't know what's the actual difference other than Catholic. What are you beliefs about going to a church if you don't mind me asking?

If you wish to be a christian and pray, I will leave this bible quote with you.
Matthew 6:5-6 KJV

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

The part in red in your quote is the most accurate compared to what the bible says.

[idrivea4banger]

So who says you have to be Christian to believe in God??

[krazy kris]

uhhhhhh

[racrguy]

So who says you have to be Christian to believe in God??

Did you not read the OP? He specifically said christianity, so that's what we're talking about.

But to directly address your question, it depends on what god(s) you're talking about. Hinduism has Krishna, Muslims have Allah. The list goes on and on.

[slostang281]

Not far-fetched. You question someones beliefs and automatically you're Anti-whatever the belief is, to people who don't have a good answer for the question. It's just easier to label you as Anti-belief and have you ostracized than it is to actually come up with a well thought out answer. I'd also like to point out the use of the No true Scotsman fallacy.

Seriously, you guys keep saying the same things over and over again and expect them to gain credibility or factuality?

To the O/P. The fact is, if someone says they are a christian and they believe the christian dogma and tenets, then they are a true christian. Regardless of their actions, they may be shitty people, they are still christians. Christians aren't defined by their actions, they're defined by their beliefs. Hitler is a self professed Roman Catholic, do his actions against millions of people somehow detract from his catholic faith? No. But he was a shitty person.

As far as the anti-believer thing, it's seems to be an easy thing for some people say. Its is the same thing as calling people derogatory names based on their race alone in my opinion. It may not hurt someone the same way but it comes out someone's mouth just as easy, all for trying to understand a concept about something but believing the same thing they do.

I didn't think it was that simple to be a true Christian but I can understand that logic.

[slostang281]

So who says you have to be Christian to believe in God??

No one I suppose but Christianity is the more common religion in the US with all the different variations. Everyone knows something about Christianity whether they are a beliver, athiest, muslim, etc, everyone knows something about it. Why would I talk about Buddhism if I didn't know anything about it and neither would most of the people on here would know much if anything about it?

[The King]

So who says you have to be Christian to believe in God??

I don't know, who does say that?

For example, Jews are not Christians but many among them believe in the same God as Christians.

[The King]

Yup, but how can a person find out what's a good church or just a building with the word church on it? I wouldn't be surprised if they were something similar to Westboro or the Polygamist church/ YFZ Ranch thing that was here. That deal kinda killed my going for church as I am hard to please as far as church and they way they handle things around here. Thinking about trying different churches around here but I know nothing about other religions. I don't know what's the actual difference other than Catholic. What are you beliefs about going to a church if you don't mind me asking?

When you talk about different churches you're not necessarily talking about different religions, rather you're talking about different denominations of the same religion. Within the modern Christian religion for instance, there are Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. My personal opinion about going to a church is that doing so is by no means in and of itself the way to Salvation. You can be Saved and never set foot in a church. Churches can provide a means though for furthering your understanding of Christianity among like-minded individuals, provided (and this is most important) they adhere to the Bible in so doing. Also, churches can perform valuable outreach in their communities to those less fortunate among us, such as the homeless, homebound elderly, or physically challenged. That's not to say those services can not be or are not being performed by secular individuals or organizations as well however, who by so doing are demonstrating true Christian attributes completely outside of any church.

[jnobles06]

i grew up in church (stepfather and his father were ministers) and read the bible in it's entirety. the main thing i really can't wrap my head around is the following: if you are a christian that believes in the bible then you have 2 outcomes to the end of your life; go to heaven, or go to hell. now, how can any person be considered truly good, or christian when given an ultimatum like that? of course, anyone who is sane will want to go to heaven which means the only reason the great majority of christians go to church and accept jesus is the reward of heaven; not because they truly have faith in jesus. how many christians would do you think there would be if the believers didn't benefit in the end, but instead were punished, or there was no benefit at all? IMO those would be the true christains, but we can never really know who they are because the ultimatum chooses for them. this very reason is one of the reasons why i am not christain. the christian values are great, and i wish everyone could follow them without being coaxed by the promise of heaven. i just try and be a morally good person the best i can.

in short it is my belief that the threat of hell/ promise of heaven forces you into being good instead of letting you make the choice for yourself. this is why you see so many people who call themselves christian, but by the bibles definition they are definitely going to hell.