Fight over teaching evolution in Texas fizzles

[mustangguy289]

One can believe whatever they want and need no permission from anyone to do so.

That doesn't mean one has any claim to truth, unless it can be demonstrated. Evolution has been demonstrated, in a great many ways. What hasn't been demonstrated is not included in the theory, so I don't see the reasoning behind believing in certain parts of the evolutionary theory and not in others.

When has it been demonstrated that a monkey has evolved into a human?

I understand cells, organisms, any living thing adapts through certain amounts of evolution to its surroundings. However, I do not see the humans from monkeys hypothesis.

[Denny]

Accepted to be true is as close to true as science will ever concede anything.



Please give an example where science has several valid hypotheses that are correct and valid and there is a scientific theory on the subject. If it exists, I've never seen it.



He made a claim, and provided valid sources to back up his claim. That's how you show that something is correct when you're not an authority on the subject. He did exactly as he should be doing. That's how research works. Not looking at what actual experts are saying and going "Oh, I don't agree with that, so it must be wrong", which is what the 6 day creationists/Intelligent Design camp does on a regular basis.



Not when performing research on science, as science doesn't give a shit about anyone's personal input. It's all about facts. So, no personal input is required.

You, on the other hand, have a habit of asserting what you believe as fact with no supporting evidence, and yet still claim to be "researched" on the matter. Then you ridicule someone else over citing sources? It's doesn't follow that you think that citing proper sources is worthy of ridicule, personal input is required for science and are well researched in anything.



I'm not barking out "blatant dishonesty", nor am I doing it quickly. Based on Stephens statements and responses in this and the "What makes the bible true" thread demonstrates it.

See, this is the main reason why neither of us will see eye to eye on this. You base your BELIEF on these hypotheses to come to a stretch of a conclusion. My BELIEF is based on faith.

It is funny, though; the last time there was a discussion on this I brought up how the biblical order of creation was right in line with science, but I don't remember if it was ever addressed by anyone else. I may have to go find it (thinking it was in Canada somewhere). But for arguement's sake, I can post it up again. If we can verify "Moses' hypotheses" (if we need to refer it as such for this scenario) through "scientific fact," then can we conclude that he is right?

Just use "day" to mean a length of time, since my personal BELIEF is more in line with the "day-period" theory. It could also not necessarily mean consecutive days, again it doesn't say for sure.

Order of Creation:
Genesis 1:1 was before the first day. It states "in the beginning." If you look at the wording, the heavens and the earth were already created. Now, what happened before that, I don't know, but I'm not going to say "millions and billions of years ago, this was here and this was happening." since I have nothing to back those claims up. If you look carefully, though, verse 1:2 talks about the earth being formless AND it was covered with deep waters.

Could there have been something prior to "Day 1" of Creation on earth? Could the earth had some sort of thriving life before "this" Creation? How far back was "In the beginning?" He flooded the earth during Noah's day. He said it would be the last time, but was it the first? I take every word of the Bible as having a specific meaning. Ya, it has been butchered and re-translated several times over, but I also belive that He got His Word to me in a specific way for a specific reason.

OK, so we have the heavens and a water-filled earth to bring us to Day 1. Now, as most things that I've read pertaining to scientific order of events, this hunk of rock started life out in water as well, so I'm still cool here.

Day 1- God made light upon the earth and separated it from darkness.

OK, since I have said that I believe that the heavens and earth were already around at this point, then the sun was already doing its thing, BUT no light shown on the earth yet. Now, science has stated that the earth could have started off with a heavy layer of gasous clouds and water vapor (possibly blocking any sunlight?). So, I'm still cool, y'all.

Day 2- The separation of the midst of waters from waters and the accumulation of land.

So, with the heavy gases and water vapors parting to allow sunlight, it allows water to collect in the form of seas, making room for land (getting that whole evaporation, condensation, precipitation thingy-muh-gig going). That process would be needed to start any sustainment of life on earth, scientifically speaking, of course.

Day 3- Vegetation, plantlife, seeding, etc.

Now, I'm no scientist, but I reckon that one of dem edumucated fellers in dem big schools would agree that the vegetation came before the chicken and the egg, so I think we still cool, here.

Day 4- Separation of the light from the night and order of sun, moon and stars.

This gets a little tricky, as I'm merely just a simpleton, trying to understand the Creator of everything. I believe that the solar system (even galaxy, for that matter) finally aligned itself into the order and positioning (timing) we have today. Notice that now living creatures were named yet, so who knows what went on when it was just plantlife... but then again, this is just what I gather from reading the Bible.

Day 5- Sea creatures and birds.

From just plants and vegetation to sea creatures and birds perfectly describes the transition of the Cretaceous and Tertiary eras. Am I still correct, here? If so, that's about right in order with science as well, so we're still cool.

Day 6- All the other "beasts of the earth" and LASTLY, man.

While that kinda loses the other orders of eras in a vague generality, it doesn't go against anything scientifically stated either, especially man being a very young creation, compared to everything else.

I could produce several sources that have similar theories, but none will have my exact theory, as they shouldn't because each and every believer has their own personal belief. I accept this since we all have our own personal relationship with God and exercise our own free will that He's given us.

Some sites that each have their own interpretations as well:

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml

http://www.suite101.com/content/the-order-of-creation-a16134

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html (this one is pretty close to mine. In fact, this is where I got help with the eras I mentioned, but he lost me on a few other parts... which is OK).

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/anthony_garrett/esct.html

Anyway, I guess since this conversation is obviously spinning its wheels in place, I thought I'd just lay out what I get from both the Bible AND science. Feel free to tear it up, but I needed to get the point across that there are no two believers of Creation that will have the same interpretation about ANYTHING that is from the Bible. Hell, even scientists come up with different theories about one subject. I just hope that you don't think that we're all just mindless drones that don't think for themselves.

[jdgregory84]

You have the exact same amount of evidence that he has lol. That's what you can't get through your head. You have evidence that species can adapt and literally change form over time to better suit their environment. Nothing more. Prove otherwise. Your theory of "creation" has the exact same credibility, scientifically, as his theory of creation. Its just sad that you'll never see that. And thats an awful baby you have in your sig.

You just said that proof of evolution exists. Just thought I would point that out.

[mustangguy289]

You just said that proof of evolution exists. Just thought I would point that out.

I think he just said there is proof of adaptation.

[jdgregory84]

I think he just said there is proof of adaptation.

What do you think evolution is? I think the problem with bible thumpers is that they cant get past the monkey part. Like one day we were monkeys, then one day we aren't. Whats funny is that they do believe that one day nothing existed and seven days later everything exists exactly the way it does today.

[Denny]

What do you think evolution is? I think the problem with bible thumpers is that they cant get past the monkey part. Like one day we were monkeys, then one day we aren't. Whats funny is that they do believe that one day nothing existed and seven days later everything exists exactly the way it does today.

Not necessarily. I go by the word of God and He says that He made us, not another thing that eventually formed into humans over the course of millions of years. Not that all forms of life were, at one point, some single-celled piece of poop. He specifically created man.

I take it you skipped over my post.

[jdgregory84]

Not necessarily. I go by the word of God and He says that He made us, not another thing that eventually formed into humans over the course of millions of years. Not that all forms of life were, at one point, some single-celled piece of poop. He specifically created man.

I take it you skipped over my post.

I'm sure its like most of your religious posts. You get your info from a higher power etc etc...

[The King]

What do you think evolution is? I think the problem with bible thumpers is that they cant get past the monkey part. Like one day we were monkeys, then one day we aren't. Whats funny is that they do believe that one day nothing existed and seven days later everything exists exactly the way it does today.

Actually the way everything existed after seven days is not the way it does today. Read the Bible and post specific references from it if you're going to post up generalizations about what "they" believe.

[Denny]

I'm sure its like most of your religious posts. You get your info from a higher power etc etc...

Wow... you guys bitch even when I lay it out as complete as I can.

OF COURSE I get my info from a higher power. I'm a Christian!!!

[jdgregory84]

Actually the way everything existed after seven days is not the way it does today. Read the Bible and post specific references from it if you're going to post up generalizations about what "they" believe.

I guess that we're going ti have to go over the burden of proof rules again? Evolution theorists have done their part. The creation believers have provided nothing but "the bible says so." So animal and plant life had evolved in the last what 8000 years since God magically put us here? Please explain. I would have to post the entire bible to prove my point in which it doesnt say anything about people changing. Other than most of us dont live for 300+ yeats despite a lack of modern medical knowledge

[jdgregory84]

Wow... you guys bitch even when I lay it out as complete as I can.

OF COURSE I get my info from a higher power. I'm a Christian!!!

I can't believe that you dont realize how crazy that sounds.

[Denny]

I can't believe that you dont realize how crazy that sounds.

I guess that we're going ti have to go over the burden of proof rules again? Evolution theorists have done their part. The creation believers have provided nothing but "the bible says so." So animal and plant life had evolved in the last what 8000 years since God magically put us here? Please explain. I would have to post the entire bible to prove my point in which it doesnt say anything about people changing. Other than most of us dont live for 300+ yeats despite a lack of modern medical knowledge

I even went as far as aligning my interpretation of the Bible's Creation with science's order.

As far as what happened with people living for different amounts of time that seem longer, there is nothing to disprove this. In fact, I haven't found anything that can disprove any part of the Bible.

I'm going to say this one more time... very... slowly... and clearly for you.

A believer is just what it means. This means that we have faith and fully take the Bible for what it is; God's Word. We believe it to be true. We require no proof, although proving it to be untrue seems like a task for people like you that are hell-bent on trying to demean God, His Word and the people that believe.

So you can bitch, pout, name call, throw your fit... whater all you want. You need proof, we couldn't be disproven if you tried. There is nothing (obviously) that will change that.

[The King]

I guess that we're going ti have to go over the burden of proof rules again? Evolution theorists have done their part. The creation believers have provided nothing but "the bible says so." So animal and plant life had evolved in the last what 8000 years since God magically put us here? Please explain. I would have to post the entire bible to prove my point in which it doesnt say anything about people changing. Other than most of us dont live for 300+ yeats despite a lack of modern medical knowledge

My previous reply had nothing to do with evolution, rather it concerned your incorrect statement about what "they" believe. Even within the first Book of the Bible, should anyone actually read it for themselves, it is obvious everything in Creation did not remain the same as it was at the time of it's genesis. So, who is it exactly that believes that and on what authority?

[Forever_frost]

Denny, I appreciate the timeline. And what the anti-creation people neglect to notice, or outright refuse to acknowledge is the Bible HASN'T changed too much from when it was first written. Dead Sea scrolls read pretty much like the King James version, so very close that it's negligible.

[Denny]

Denny, I appreciate the timeline. And what the anti-creation people neglect to notice, or outright refuse to acknowledge is the Bible HASN'T changed too much from when it was first written. Dead Sea scrolls read pretty much like the King James version, so very close that it's negligible.

No problem, bro.

The NWO planted the Dead Sea Scrolls, just to throw us off. LMAO!!!