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  • Fight over teaching evolution in Texas fizzles

    Thank God. IMO my Christian brethren are very misguided on this issue.




    AUSTIN, Texas — Unlike the fiery debate that erupted two years ago, an expected fight over teaching evolution in Texas public schools has likely fizzled after state education officials made only minor changes to new science materials for the coming school years.

    A final vote is expected Friday, a day after the Texas State Board of Education unanimously approved the changes. The Republican-dominated board drew national attention in 2009 when it adopted science standards encouraging schools to scrutinize "all sides" of scientific theory, a move some creationists hailed as a victory.

    Thursday's preliminary vote diffused the expected renewal of that debate. Although the board could still make changes Friday, board member David Bradley predicted few fireworks would emerge.

    "Somebody might want to refund their tickets," the Republican said after the vote. "There wasn't a fight."

    The public hearing Thursday was dominated by witnesses encouraging the board to adopt the materials that had been recommended by state Education Commissioner Robert Scott.

    One that didn't make the recommended list was an electronic textbook that includes lessons on intelligent design, which is the theory that life on Earth is so complex it was guided with the help of an intelligent higher power.

    "There's no bad science going into classrooms" in the approved materials, said Dan Quinn, spokesman for the Texas Freedom Network, a group that sides with mainstream scientists on teaching evolution.

    The new online teaching materials are necessary because the state could not afford to buy new textbooks this year, leaving students to use some that are several years old. Supplemental materials that are approved have the advantage of being on the state's recommended list, but school districts can still buy other materials they chose.

    The board instructed two publishers to make changes to some biology materials that used drawings of embryonic similarities between species. The board said more accurate photographs should be used instead.

    Another publisher was instructed to make changes to a section that compared human and chimpanzee skulls. The publisher's written response disputed that its material was wrong, and it has the choice of changing the section or withdrawing its material altogether.

    Board Chairwoman Barbara Cargill, a former biology teacher who disputes evolution, and Bradley said there was little debate among board members because the materials met the standards set in 2009.

    "The supplements are good," said Cargill, a Republican from The Woodlands.

    One conservative group, Texans for a Better Science Education, had put out a call to pack Thursday's public hearing with testimony urging board members to adopt materials that question evolution. But they were outnumbered by witnesses urging the board to adopt the materials with few changes.

    "I don't want my children's public school teachers to teach faith and God in a science classroom," said the Rev. Kelly Allen of University Presbyterian Church in San Antonio. "True religion can handle truth in all its forms. Evolution is solid science."

    The public testimony got off to a heated start. One of the first speakers, Tom Davis of Austin, urged the board to ignore any materials that deal with creationism or intelligent design.

    "Intelligent design is creationism, wrapped in thin veneer of pseudoscience," Davis said. "Creation isn't really science at all. It's philosophy."

    Sensing that repeated attacks on religion were to come, board member Ken Mercer, R-San Antonio, offered anyone in the audience $500 if they could find any reference in the state science standards to "Jesus or God."

    "It's just not there," Mercer said.

    The tone of the debate quickly settled down from there.

    David Shormann of Magnolia, who runs a Christian-based math and science education software company, said evolution has too many "untestable" components and can't provide a real look at ancient life without a "time machine or a crystal ball."

    But Lorenzo Sadun, a math professor at the University of Texas, said those opposing evolution overstate gaps in the fossil record and other areas when trying to discredit the theory.

    "The theory of evolution is based on almost as much evidence as the theory of gravity," Sadun said.

  • #2
    There are a lot of people who believe that if is not in the Bible, then it is untrue. My only issue is that since Evolution is merely a theory, why aren't any other alternatives taught?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Denny View Post
      There are a lot of people who believe that if is not in the Bible, then it is untrue. My only issue is that since Evolution is merely a theory, why aren't any other alternatives taught?
      Because Libs run our educational "system".

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Denny View Post
        There are a lot of people who believe that if is not in the Bible, then it is untrue. My only issue is that since Evolution is merely a theory, why aren't any other alternatives taught?
        Offering no alternatives to evolution in public school cirricula is simply another example of the arrogance of man, as illustrated repeatedly in the Bible.

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        • #5
          It is all very simple. Science is taught in school. Science consists of what we know or think we know. Anything beyond that should be taught in church because it relies on faith, which falls into the realm of religion.

          Unless christians are happy with their children learning crackpot whacko evolution theories that other religions hold to be true, they really shouldn't be trying to inject their version into school.
          Originally posted by racrguy
          What's your beef with NPR, because their listeners are typically more informed than others?
          Originally posted by racrguy
          Voting is a constitutional right, overthrowing the government isn't.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Broncojohnny View Post
            Unless christians are happy with their children learning crackpot whacko evolution theories that other religions hold to be true, they really shouldn't be trying to inject their version into school.
            I think people forget about this part. Christians (in general) are ok with legislating based on their morals, but what happens if America gets a loud minority, or majority of Muslims? Do we legislate Sharia law? (of course not, but I think it illustrates my point, allbeit in an extreme way)

            I'm a Christian, I believe in creation, but I don't think a public school is the place for adults to forward religious motives. (I say adults becasue I don't see a problem with students talking about their religion with other students.)
            "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
            -Gerald Ford/Thomas Jefferson

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Broncojohnny View Post
              It is all very simple. Science is taught in school. Science consists of what we know or think we know. Anything beyond that should be taught in church because it relies on faith, which falls into the realm of religion.

              Unless christians are happy with their children learning crackpot whacko evolution theories that other religions hold to be true, they really shouldn't be trying to inject their version into school.
              Science also says we do not have all the answers. Creationism and/or intelligent design is another theory, just like the THEORY of evolution. Even Darwin said he can't explain the beginning. And using your own words of "Science consists of what we know", then the beginning of life should never be discussed in class as we do not KNOW the beginning, have never been able to duplicate it or create it ourselves. Thus, it shouldn't be taught right?
              I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
                Science also says we do not have all the answers. Creationism and/or intelligent design is another theory, just like the THEORY of evolution. Even Darwin said he can't explain the beginning. And using your own words of "Science consists of what we know", then the beginning of life should never be discussed in class as we do not KNOW the beginning, have never been able to duplicate it or create it ourselves. Thus, it shouldn't be taught right?
                Teaching what we know, or think we know, as Broncojohnny posted is fine. Teaching that "knowledge" exclusively is what is wrong in a public school environment.

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                • #9
                  I went to a private christian high school in the 90s and was fortunate enough to have sensible teachers who expounded the theory of evolution intact. Although intelligent design was generally posited in the delivery of the material, it was impossible to discuss even the random nature of genetic combination in progeny and the consequences of natural selection without tipping off the students that the processes at work were not entirely deliberate.

                  Science was taught in science class, history in history class, and religion was left to chapel or separate classes where religious beliefs were specifically the subject being taught.

                  It's not unfair to to either side of the philosophical/theological debate to declare that evolution doesn't address our physical manifestation. It is unfair to attempt to truncate evolutionary theory in the classroom or to interpret it as evidence against creation.

                  At most, evolution describes an absence of some guiding force in the development of Earth's critters, and by extension ourselves. It's a theory about an automated, self propagating system left to chance and natural selection. Statistics would probably say our existence is entirely impossible if left to chance, but it's ironic to me that probability theory can be used as the basis of an argument against a science rooted in probability theory.

                  I completely get why this is threatening to Christians, but somewhat paraphrasing my high school biology teacher's justification of teaching evolution in the first place: God's creation is a mystery to us, and good science helps to explain it. We have to accept good science and what it tells us about the world we live in, even if it is contradictory to what we would like to believe.
                  Men have become the tools of their tools.
                  -Henry David Thoreau

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                  • #10
                    in college, evolution is taught in every science class, and there is a lot of evidence to back it up. why make it harder on our kids?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cannonball996 View Post
                      in college, evolution is taught in every science class, and there is a lot of evidence to back it up. why make it harder on our kids?
                      So, do you seriously believe that current public school cirricula are already "hard on our kids"?

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                      • #12
                        I have a simple questions..... How is believing in the theory of evolution any different then believing in the bible? Some say neither one can be proved?
                        www.dfwdirtriders.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mustangguy289 View Post
                          I have a simple questions..... How is believing in the theory of evolution any different then believing in the bible? Some say neither one can be proved?
                          Because the theory of evolution does not involve magic and talking snakes, it seems more valid to me.
                          Originally posted by lincolnboy
                          After watching Games of Thrones, makes me glad i was not born in those years.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cannonball996 View Post
                            in college, evolution is taught in every science class, and there is a lot of evidence to back it up. why make it harder on our kids?
                            That is a bunch of bs. There is not any evidence at all.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DOHCTR View Post
                              Because the theory of evolution does not involve magic and talking snakes, it seems more valid to me.
                              Yeah the idea that we evolved from apes makes much more sense...

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