What makes the bible true

[forbes]

Exodus 33:20 (KJV)
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

By faith Enoch “was translated that he should not see death … for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.” Hebrews 11:5. In the midst of a world by its iniquity doomed to destruction, Enoch lived a life of such close communion with God that he was not permitted to fall under the power of death.

so there is a guy who saw god and lived

[racrguy]

Clearly you lack the ability to see that he has backed his claim up, and you also prove another point in arguing the point you have, the bible contradicts itself. Given the three laws of logic that have been quoted in this thread, we can come to the correct conclusion that the bible, at the least, is illogical. Maybe they should make another translation that doesn't contradict itself, or any evidence that contradicts what we have evidence for. If they did that I'd be willing to bet there's not much of a book left.

[The King]

Exodus 33:20 (KJV)
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Straightforward when someone knows something of the subject matter they're posting about. There are other references from Exodus, but this one suffices.


On the other had, still waiting on Maddhatter to back up his claim quoted below, with some of his own words bolded so he doesn't overlook them yet again, LOL:

Given that people have claimed seeing God both in the bible and in the hundreds of years since, there is no indication that it's not a visual likeness, and if image and likeness are interchangeable, due to the definitions, it could not be anything other than visual.

*****crickets*****

[racrguy]

Nope, get back to work. Provide names of individuals from the Bible who have seen God, visually. Not individuals who saw Jesus, spake with God, or knew God, but rather individuals who visually perceived the image or likeness of God. You have done nothing thus far but fail, but no surprise there, is there?

Apparently you're ignoring what he's saying to you. Then again, if I had as much evidence in relation to my beliefs as you do, I can understand why you would. Nobody likes being wrong, some people can just accept it better than others.

Support your statement above by listing names of people claiming to have seen God, in a visual likeness, from the Bible. Include references to Book, Chapter, and Verse. Image and likeness are not visual in the Biblical context,...

He did

Everyone who saw Jesus. John 1:1,14.

Just to ensure that I include an Old Testament reference, Moses.

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

You seem perplexed with this question

Claims about seeing God in hundreds of years since???

So he clarified.

http://www.haveyouseengod.com/ Yep. The claims of seeing God in the hundreds of years since the bible.

As was the case above, you obsession with slavery has nothing to do with your lack of understanding of what the OT is about. Suggest you first focus on simple tasks in order to back up your claims.

That's mighty hypocritical of you, isn't it? Seeing as how he has supported every one of his claims, and you've yet to support any claims you've made.

[The King]

Nope, get back to work. Provide names of individuals from the Bible who have seen God, visually. Not individuals who saw Jesus, spake with God, or knew God, but rather individuals who visually perceived the image or likeness of God. You have done nothing thus far but fail, but no surprise there, is there?

As was the case above, you obsession with slavery has nothing to do with your lack of understanding of what the OT is about. Suggest you first focus on simple tasks in order to back up your claims.

[Maddhattter]

Jesus is the Son, you have failed.

Fact check much? Again, context is what's important. The verses are

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of faith and truth.

Both KJV.

So, per your book, the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh, and beheld. Your book disagrees with you, or it contradicts itself. I'll let you pick.

Spake is not visual, you have failed.

Face to face is, sorry.

Knew is not visual, you have failed.

Again, face to face is.

LOL now get back to work......God's image and likeness in the Bible are not visual.

Your book disagrees with you or contradicts itself. In regard to God's image, not me getting back to work.

So what? You can claim to have seen Napoleon, and post that on website. Claims posted on an internet site are not by default true.

Using the basis of support you've used for your claims, than accepting the claim as truth is all that is needed, so posting said claims, if I accepted them as truth would be true. Your rules, not mine.

What does your copy/paste of Google links about slavery in the Bible have to do with your lack of knowledge about the Old Testament? BTW your wayward response above includes pastes from the New Testament, further illustrating your lack of knowledge.

Not a single Google link copy/pasted, thank you. Although I did have to look up the verse chapters and number in Leviticus. I know that some verses are in the New Testament, as most of the verses are from the Old Testament, it does show that the Old Testament does endorse slavery. I've always found slavery to be abysmally immoral.

[Maddhattter]

i guess it's perspective... she was poor, tending to all these kids kinda ties her into the whole women are not equal thing... just like red riding hood, the wolf takes advantage of the girl, jack sprats fat ass wife.. they all seem derogatory towards women.. which is enslavement on one sector or another...

So, is any story that derogatory towards men enslavement? If that's the case, there's not a whole lot of literary room to work with.

If it's not, it's a double standard, which seems to be even more derogatory to women. To me, it seems to imply that men can take being shown in a bad light, but women can't handle it.

I also admit, I firmly believe that if a woman wants to be treated as an an equal, she gets no special treatment. If she wants to be treated like a princess, or whatever, then she will not be treated as an equal.

arabs have there women walk behind them, in the old testament women on the rag were cast of by themselves ( i understand the health issue part) but rather it be race or sex... enslavement and being held below any other person or man is enslavement to me (used as a verb)

I can't see the justification of calling it enslavement, unless one is imposing their will on another without the consent of the other. There are Arab women who think that they should walk behind them, Japanese culture has a similar practice. I agree that it can appear demeaning, I just think that your minimizing the burden slaves had to bear, by implying that writing stories that are not nice to the poor little girls in them is somehow slavery.

These, however, are my thoughts and beliefs. So, take them for what they are worth to you.

and before i get a total rashing of shit... i do not claim to be a scholar of anything regarding faith or lack of. i find fault in both of your arguments... which is the reason i question both of you in order to seek out information in forming my own opinions

I don't fault ignorance. I'm ignorant on a great many things.

I would like to know the fault you find in my arguments, though. So, please, feel free to put them out there. If I'm wrong, I want to be proven wrong. I want to believe as few falsehoods as possible. So, if my argument is flawed, I need to rethink it.

[The King]

Everyone who saw Jesus. John 1:1,14.

Just to ensure that I include an Old Testament reference, Moses.

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

Jesus is the Son, you have failed.

Spake is not visual, you have failed.

Knew is not visual, you have failed.

LOL now get back to work......God's image and likeness in the Bible are not visual.

http://www.haveyouseengod.com/ Yep. The claims of seeing God in the hundreds of years since the bible.

So what? You can claim to have seen Napoleon, and post that on website. Claims posted on an internet site are not by default true.

Exodus 21:2
If thou buy an Hebrew servant....

Exodus 21:7
If a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant....

Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

Exodus 22:3
If he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

Leviticus 22:11
If the priest buy any soul with his money....

Leviticus 25:39
And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee....

Leviticus 25:44-46
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever.

Ephesians 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.

Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.

1 Timothy 6:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

Titus 2:9-10
Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Oh, your right. The bible doesn't endorse slavery. Where would I get that?

What does your copy/paste of Google links about slavery in the Bible have to do with your lack of knowledge about the Old Testament? BTW your wayward response above includes pastes from the New Testament, further illustrating your lack of knowledge.

[forbes]

So, is it living in a shoe that makes her a slave? The nursery rhyme never implied servitude to me. Again, I could be wrong.

i guess it's perspective... she was poor, tending to all these kids kinda ties her into the whole women are not equal thing... just like red riding hood, the wolf takes advantage of the girl, jack sprats fat ass wife.. they all seem derogatory towards women.. which is enslavement on one sector or another... arabs have there women walk behind them, in the old testament women on the rag were cast of by themselves ( i understand the health issue part) but rather it be race or sex... enslavement and being held below any other person or man is enslavement to me (used as a verb)

[Maddhattter]

slavery = mother goose... there was an old woman who lived in a shoe.. seems slave like to me...

So, is it living in a shoe that makes her a slave? The nursery rhyme never implied servitude to me. Again, I could be wrong.

[Maddhattter]

Support your statement above by listing names of people claiming to have seen God, in a visual likeness, from the Bible. Include references to Book, Chapter, and Verse. Image and likeness are not visual in the Biblical context, a concept you may eventually grasp after you perform the above requested task, buttercup.

Everyone who saw Jesus. John 1:1,14.

Just to ensure that I include an Old Testament reference, Moses.

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

Claims about seeing God in hundreds of years since???

http://www.haveyouseengod.com/ Yep. The claims of seeing God in the hundreds of years since the bible.

I would hope they would be able to cover more details than you would. Your knowledge of what the Old Testament is about seems to be almost nil.

Exodus 21:2
If thou buy an Hebrew servant....

Exodus 21:7
If a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant....

Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

Exodus 22:3
If he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

Leviticus 22:11
If the priest buy any soul with his money....

Leviticus 25:39
And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee....

Leviticus 25:44-46
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever.

Ephesians 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.

Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.

1 Timothy 6:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

Titus 2:9-10
Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Oh, your right. The bible doesn't endorse slavery. Where would I get that?

[forbes]

The Jesus part is the centerpiece of the entire Bible, and it would not exist if not for Jesus.

the old testemant (part of the bible existed..) and that was before jesus... so does that make it null and void?

[forbes]

and before i get a total rashing of shit... i do not claim to be a scholar of anything regarding faith or lack of. i find fault in both of your arguments... which is the reason i question both of you in order to seek out information in forming my own opinions

[forbes]

Moral what!? Did you miss the Old Testament? The bible's morality is far different than Mother Goose. Unless Mother Goose thought slavery was ok, for one. I didn't get that from Mother Goose stories, but it's possible.

However, your question is valid. When it comes to the Abrahamic religions, there is not a lot of difference, but there are major differences doctrinally. When expanding beyond the Abrahamic religions, points begin to vary wildly, depending on the particular religion.

If you want more info, I'd recommend you look up some comparative religion classes at your local college. The course would be able to cover more details than I would.

slavery = mother goose... there was an old woman who lived in a shoe.. seems slave like to me...
i have studied several religions actually i am a recovering catholic so to say....
my faith is somewhat self defined...
and actually i believe alot of what the comedian george carlin has to say... he makes alot of references that seem definitive based on common sense, something i can't say about alot of scripture from any doctrine... and at this point, i'm not arguing.. just trying to gather information in order to make reasonable opinion on what suits me )(rather it falls tween either of your guidelines) i just prefer to think rationally than to say i believe certain things based on religious faith or lack of

[The King]

Given that people have claimed seeing God both in the bible and in the hundreds of years since, there is no indication that it's not a visual likeness, and if image and likeness are interchangeable, due to the definitions, it could not be anything other than visual. That's the way word association works, sugarbear.

Support your statement above by listing names of people claiming to have seen God, in a visual likeness, from the Bible. Include references to Book, Chapter, and Verse. Image and likeness are not visual in the Biblical context, a concept you may eventually grasp after you perform the above requested task, buttercup.

Claims about seeing God in hundreds of years since???

Moral what!? Did you miss the Old Testament? The bible's morality is far different than Mother Goose. Unless Mother Goose thought slavery was ok, for one. I didn't get that from Mother Goose stories, but it's possible.

However, your question is valid. When it comes to the Abrahamic religions, there is not a lot of difference, but there are major differences doctrinally. When expanding beyond the Abrahamic religions, points begin to vary wildly, depending on the particular religion.

If you want more info, I'd recommend you look up some comparative religion classes at your local college. The course would be able to cover more details than I would.

I would hope they would be able to cover more details than you would. Your knowledge of what the Old Testament is about seems to be almost nil.