What makes the bible true

[BlackSnake]

Your quote is out of context. In that passage Jesus was talking to Pharisees. Since that generation is no longer alive, your argument fails.

It fails nothing. Still applies. If you think not, show me.

[ceyko]

OH NOES, A ONE STAR RATING!? What ever shall I do. I don't know if I can save myself...

Done, now live in fear.

[racrguy]

False? Not necessarily. I was saved at the age of 12. Had a great relationship with God till somewhere around 16/17. Got mixed up on drugs and ended up working my way up the ranks of a local biker club. Religion and God were no longer a part of me as I could tell you stories that have never been spoken. Not even to my wife.

Sometimes I felt I knew he was "there", but I also questioned the reality of the whole God/Bible thing. Through this period, I had been through the gut of living hard. Drugs, guns, girls, fights and bikes. There was no time for God. There was only time to look over your shoulder and have no fear.

After my life had been threatened and another local club made it clear that I was a target, (not the 1st time) something clicked. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I was afraid. I wasn't afraid of dying though. I was afraid of waisting my life in the whole. I realized I didn't want to grow old living that way.

Without saying a word to anyone, I walked away, sold my bike and soon walked into a church and asked God to forgive me and to help me get through it all.

I was a 3 six pack a day drinker, smoked weed and snorted crank everyday. Acid, Mescaline (sp) Tea, etc as it came around. Dropped it all in one day. I never went to any drug treatments. I simply asked God to take it all away so I could serve him. I have never touched drugs since and no one has ever come looking for me. 2 miracles right there.

In just a few years, I was teaching Sunday school...long hair, beard and all. I have been involved in street ministry, and I don't mean like the idiots on the corner screaming, "God is coming!" We helped those that were in need because of drugs, divorce, etc.

Just because you had a relationship with God at one time doesn't mean that you will always feel that way. The Prodical Son is a prime example of this. We all have a free will to do as we please. Had I never walked away and questioned my savior, I would have never had to go through the insanity that I did.

The reason you walked away is on your back friend. The question, is there a place you have to come to before you realize the beauty of the relationship you once had? Our Father knows what to whisper in your ear. Do you remember how to listen, or has your heart grown cold with "show me a sign" if you are real? Prove it, etc...

Your personal experiences do not prove the validity of the bible or the existence of a deity.

It fails nothing. Still applies. If you think not, show me.

I already have. If I were to have a conversation with you and tell you something will happen within your generation, it would not be reasonable for future generations to expect that which was supposed to happen during a prior generations lifetime.

Anyone with the ability to use context clues would be able to see that the conversation was had between two people, and not someone tellig many people something.

[Maddhattter]

False? Not necessarily. I was saved at the age of 12. Had a great relationship with God till somewhere around 16/17. Got mixed up on drugs and ended up working my way up the ranks of a local biker club. Religion and God were no longer a part of me as I could tell you stories that have never been spoken. Not even to my wife.

Sometimes I felt I knew he was "there", but I also questioned the reality of the whole God/Bible thing. Through this period, I had been through the gut of living hard. Drugs, guns, girls, fights and bikes. There was no time for God. There was only time to look over your shoulder and have no fear.

After my life had been threatened and another local club made it clear that I was a target, (not the 1st time) something clicked. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I was afraid. I wasn't afraid of dying though. I was afraid of waisting my life in the whole. I realized I didn't want to grow old living that way.

Without saying a word to anyone, I walked away, sold my bike and soon walked into a church and asked God to forgive me and to help me get through it all.

I was a 3 six pack a day drinker, smoked weed and snorted crank everyday. Acid, Mescaline (sp) Tea, etc as it came around. Dropped it all in one day. I never went to any drug treatments. I simply asked God to take it all away so I could serve him. I have never touched drugs since and no one has ever come looking for me. 2 miracles right there.

In just a few years, I was teaching Sunday school...long hair, beard and all. I have been involved in street ministry, and I don't mean like the idiots on the corner screaming, "God is coming!" We helped those that were in need because of drugs, divorce, etc.

Just because you had a relationship with God at one time doesn't mean that you will always feel that way. The Prodical Son is a prime example of this. We all have a free will to do as we please. Had I never walked away and questioned my savior, I would have never had to go through the insanity that I did.

The reason you walked away is on your back friend. The question, is there a place you have to come to before you realize the beauty of the relationship you once had? Our Father knows what to whisper in your ear. Do you remember how to listen, or has your heart grown cold with "show me a sign" if you are real? Prove it, etc...

Just to give some background on my experiences, both of my parents are believers. I grew up going to church every Sunday, going to bible study camp during the summer, and believing I had a personal relationship with Jesus as my personal lord and savior.

Yet, even as a child, I tried to reconcile science with the bible. I asked how science could show that the earth was billions of years old, and the bible implicates that it’s roughly 6000 years old. I was given the familiar answers of “maybe God created an old earth”, “science must be wrong because the Bible says otherwise”, etc. The ifs and maybes were almost always followed by a statement of knowledge that the Bible must be right because the Bible is the word of God. When asked for proof of the Bible’s divine inspiration, the bible is quoted. This brings us back the problem of circular reasoning, which I’ve covered in a previous post.

When I inquired about how science determined how old the world was, I was shown a repeatable, demonstrable process and methodology that didn’t care what I believed in. I didn’t have to guess what the results meant; it was exactly as it was stated. The best part is, many of these experiments, I not only could do at home, I constantly did and do experiments verifying science’s accuracy. From the time I get up in the morning, until the time I get up the next morning I am testing scientific principles.

When I get out of bed, I’m testing the theory of gravity.
When I brush my teeth, I’m testing the germ theory.
When I turn on my lights/radio (People still use these!? Geez, I’m getting old.)/television/computer, I’m testing electrical theory.

At nearly every moment of every day, we all test scientific theory and it repeatedly and demonstrably proves itself correct without regard to belief, desire or faith. In fact, every time science and religion have had differing hypotheses on something, science has always won out.

Not a very good track record of a divinely inspired novel from an omniscient being.

It fails nothing. Still applies. If you think not, show me.

Mark 8:12 fails here the same way me quoting you below fails.

Religion and God were no longer a part of me as I could tell you stories that have never been spoken. There was no time for God.

When removed from the context it was in, the statement don’t carry the same meaning. Context is important in all literature and writing. In the quote you listed, Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees in Dalmanutha, after feeding the masses by conjuring bread and fish. Your post implies that we should not ask or expect a sign because Jesus said there would be no sign in the Pharisees generation. Considering we don’t live within the same generation as the Pharisees, it is irrelevant to any conversation that is not discussing what Jesus said to the Pharisees when they asked for a sign from heaven and tempted him.

[BlackSnake]

Your personal experiences do not prove the validity of the bible or the existence of a deity.

That wasnt necessarly entended to do so. Just explaining to Maddhattter that just because you use to believe doent emply that their religious experance was false. I also hear that from many Christians. The Bible says that if you believe in him, than you shall have eternal live. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Cant see where God would say, "Well son, you just didnt believe correctly." Kind of silly really.

The cool thing here is that those of you that have had this relationship, still have it. Just sad to me that you dont know this.

[BlackSnake]

Just to give some background on my experiences, both of my parents are believers. I grew up going to church every Sunday, going to bible study camp during the summer, and believing I had a personal relationship with Jesus as my personal lord and savior.

Yet, even as a child, I tried to reconcile science with the bible. I asked how science could show that the earth was billions of years old, and the bible implicates that it’s roughly 6000 years old. I was given the familiar answers of “maybe God created an old earth”, “science must be wrong because the Bible says otherwise”, etc. The ifs and maybes were almost always followed by a statement of knowledge that the Bible must be right because the Bible is the word of God. When asked for proof of the Bible’s divine inspiration, the bible is quoted. This brings us back the problem of circular reasoning, which I’ve covered in a previous post.

When I inquired about how science determined how old the world was, I was shown a repeatable, demonstrable process and methodology that didn’t care what I believed in. I didn’t have to guess what the results meant; it was exactly as it was stated. The best part is, many of these experiments, I not only could do at home, I constantly did and do experiments verifying science’s accuracy. From the time I get up in the morning, until the time I get up the next morning I am testing scientific principles.

When I get out of bed, I’m testing the theory of gravity.
When I brush my teeth, I’m testing the germ theory.
When I turn on my lights/radio (People still use these!? Geez, I’m getting old.)/television/computer, I’m testing electrical theory.

At nearly every moment of every day, we all test scientific theory and it repeatedly and demonstrably proves itself correct without regard to belief, desire or faith. In fact, every time science and religion have had differing hypotheses on something, science has always won out.

Not a very good track record of a divinely inspired novel from an omniscient being.


Mark 8:12 fails here the same way me quoting you below fails.


When removed from the context it was in, the statement don’t carry the same meaning. Context is important in all literature and writing. In the quote you listed, Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees in Dalmanutha, after feeding the masses by conjuring bread and fish. Your post implies that we should not ask or expect a sign because Jesus said there would be no sign in the Pharisees generation. Considering we don’t live within the same generation as the Pharisees, it is irrelevant to any conversation that is not discussing what Jesus said to the Pharisees when they asked for a sign from heaven and tempted him.

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”

Even with this passage, you may be right. I have always thought it to be applicable to today as well. I will look into it further.

I for one am glad that you came to Christ in your earlier years. That will be for ever no matter what you do or how you choose to live out the rest of your life. You may have turned your back, but God never breaks a covenant bond.

[racrguy]

That wasnt necessarly entended to do so. Just explaining to Maddhattter that just because you use to believe doent emply that their religious experance was false. I also hear that from many Christians. The Bible says that if you believe in him, than you shall have eternal live. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Cant see where God would say, "Well son, you just didnt believe correctly." Kind of silly really.

The cool thing here is that those of you that have had this relationship, still have it. Just sad to me that you dont know this.

I wrote in a book once that everyone who believed in me will live forever, and god told me to write it.

Leviticus 5:14-16
14 The LORD said to Moses: 15 "When a person commits a violation and sins unintentionally in regard to any of the LORD's holy things, he is to bring to the LORD as a penalty a ram from the flock, one without defect and of the proper value in silver, according to the sanctuary shekel. It is a guilt offering. 16 He must make restitution for what he has failed to do in regard to the holy things, add a fifth of the value to that and give it all to the priest, who will make atonement for him with the ram as a guilt offering, and he will be forgiven.

If I sin without knowing I did, then all I have to do is sacrifice a blemish free ram, and take it to a priest then all will be forgiven. There must be a LOT of people sinning and knowing it, because I know of no ram ever being sacrificed for/to Yaweh.

Kind of silly, right?

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”

Even with this passage, you may be right. I have always thought it to be applicable to today as well. I will look into it further.

I for one am glad that you came to Christ in your earlier years. That will be for ever no matter what you do or how you choose to live out the rest of your life. You may have turned your back, but God never breaks a covenant bond.

Not true. Ever hear of Mark 3:29?
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation"

You ask me if I've read the bible. Have you? If you had, you'd have known about the ONE unforgivable sin and not made this egregious blunder of a statement. It's not like there's 450 unforgivable sins, just one, a lonely little sin. No friends to play with, forever alone.

[BlackSnake]

I wrote in a book once that everyone who believed in me will live forever, and god told me to write it.

Leviticus 5:14-16
14 The LORD said to Moses: 15 "When a person commits a violation and sins unintentionally in regard to any of the LORD's holy things, he is to bring to the LORD as a penalty a ram from the flock, one without defect and of the proper value in silver, according to the sanctuary shekel. It is a guilt offering. 16 He must make restitution for what he has failed to do in regard to the holy things, add a fifth of the value to that and give it all to the priest, who will make atonement for him with the ram as a guilt offering, and he will be forgiven.

If I sin without knowing I did, then all I have to do is sacrifice a blemish free ram, and take it to a priest then all will be forgiven. There must be a LOT of people sinning and knowing it, because I know of no ram ever being sacrificed for/to Yaweh.

Kind of silly, right?



Not true. Ever hear of Mark 3:29?
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation"

You ask me if I've read the bible. Have you? If you had, you'd have known about the ONE unforgivable sin and not made this egregious blunder of a statement. It's not like there's 450 unforgivable sins, just one, a lonely little sin. No friends to play with, forever alone.

Of course I have. "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

This is why you dont read the Bible as a book, but study it.

This came at a time that Jesus was questioned by the teachers of thst time of his performioing exercisms. They accused him of doing this in the name of satin. Otherwise, they were giving credit to satin what belonged to God. If Jesus is casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit, and the Pharisees slander the Holy Spirit by trying to make people think the Holy Spirit is Satan, then they are blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Knowingly slandering the Holy Spirit by misleading people to think that He is Satan. No one who does this can be forgiven, because it is through the Holy Spirit that we are forgiven. Clearly no one who thinks the Holy Spirit is Satin can or would ask or believe in recieving the gift of salvation. Therefore there is no salvation.

Also...(never loosing salvation)

John 10:28
"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."

Romans 8:29-33
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.


Titus 3:5
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

[BlackSnake]

Missed one...


John 6:37
“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

[racrguy]

This came at a time that Jesus was questioned by the teachers of thst time of his performioing exercisms. They accused him of doing this in the name of satin. Otherwise, they were giving credit to satin what belonged to God. If Jesus is casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit, and the Pharisees slander the Holy Spirit by trying to make people think the Holy Spirit is Satan, then they are blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Knowingly slandering the Holy Spirit by misleading people to think that He is Satan. No one who does this can be forgiven, because it is through the Holy Spirit that we are forgiven. Clearly no one who thinks the Holy Spirit is Satin can or would ask or believe in recieving the gift of salvation.

Please stop defining words as you see fit.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blasphemy

blas·phe·my
noun \ˈblas-fə-mē\
plural blas·phe·mies
Definition of BLASPHEMY
1
a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2
: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blasphemy

blas·phe·my
   /ˈblæsfəmi/ Show Spelled[blas-fuh-mee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -mies.
1.
impious utterance or action concerning god or sacred things.
2.
Judaism .
a.
an act of cursing or reviling God.
b.
pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
3.
Theology . the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.

By me merely questioning god is blasphemy.

[BlackSnake]

Please stop defining words as you see fit.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blasphemy

blas·phe·my
noun \ˈblas-fə-mē\
plural blas·phe·mies
Definition of BLASPHEMY
1
a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2
: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blasphemy

blas·phe·my
   /ˈblæsfəmi/ Show Spelled[blas-fuh-mee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -mies.
1.
impious utterance or action concerning god or sacred things.
2.
Judaism .
a.
an act of cursing or reviling God.
b.
pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
3.
Theology . the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.

By me merely questioning god is blasphemy.

Its not simply blasphemy, but blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Matt. 12:22-32 says, "Then there was brought to Him a demon-possessed man who was blind and dumb, and He healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. 23And all the multitudes were amazed, and began to say, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?" 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebub the ruler of the demons." 25And knowing their thoughts He said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself shall not stand. 26"And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? 27"And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? Consequently they shall be your judges. 28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29"Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come,"

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in its nature is a eternal sin. If someone rejects the evidence given by the Holy Spirit and credits it to Satan, he rejects the only evidence that faith can be based on. And without faith there is no forgiveness.


Peter blasphemed Christ with curses and was forgiven
Mark 14:71
But he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, “I do not know this man of whom you speak.”



John MsCarthur writes...
Those who spoke against the Holy Spirit were those who saw His divine power working in and through Jesus but willfully refused to accept the implications of that revelation and, in some cases, attributed that power to Satan. Many people had heard Jesus teach and preach God’s truth, as no man had ever taught before (Matt. 7:28–29), yet they refused to believe Him. They had seen him heal every kind of disease, cast out every kind of demon, and forgive every kind of sin, yet they charged Him with deceit, falsehood, and demonism. In the face of every possible evidence of Jesus’ messiahship and deity, they said no. God could do nothing more for them, and they would therefore remain eternally unforgiven.

[davbrucas]

If someone rejects the evidence given by the Holy Spirit

One would think that a god who made the universe would give more evidence of his existence than a book of stories written by man 2000yr ago. Hence the saying, "Blind faith is an ironic gift to the creator of human intelligence!"
I dont believe that we have our beginnings figured out and maybe we never will but the notion that it happened as stated in the bible is naive and absurd.

[BlackSnake]

One would think that a god who made the universe would give more evidence of his existence than a book of stories written by man 2000yr ago. Hence the saying, "Blind faith is an ironic gift to the creator of human intelligence!"
I dont believe that we have our beginnings figured out and maybe we never will but the notion that it happened as stated in the bible is naive and absurd.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

[davbrucas]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I have no wisdom or understanding then.

[BlackSnake]

I have no wisdom or understanding then.

Actually I believe you are one of the most educated folks in here. Remember that we are talking spiritual wisdom.