2013 Formula 1 Thread.

[aggie97]

No, it doesn't. The only skill required to save these tyres is the ability to drive 90% or less. You have watched and listened all year right?

By your logic, PDR from the first half of the year is the most skilled because he could squeeze so many laps out.

The tyre is literally designed to degrade rapidly to force more pits. Saying that its a factor of skill ignores that and even contradicts the front running drivers and teams. Sorry...but
I'll take their word over anyone on this forum. Even the mighty grape. Hell the car setup has more to do with degradation than driver.

Have you ever driven a racecar? It is extremely difficult to run "off rythym" and hit target lap times with any consistancy.

You mention the teams are complaining....well duh. They are always whining about not being able to gain all their advantages. If they were allowed to do what they wanted, the gaps would be bigger and the races even more boring as the well funded teams walk away even more.

[Ruffdaddy]

Have you ever driven a racecar? It is extremely difficult to run "off rythym" and hit target lap times with any consistancy.

You mention the teams are complaining....well duh. They are always whining about not being able to gain all their advantages. If they were allowed to do what they wanted, the gaps would be bigger and the races even more boring as the well funded teams walk away even more.

None of us here have driven an F1 race, and if you think your "experience" even comes close to qualifying your incorrect opinion...there's no sense in talking to you about this.

Your entire first sentence screams ignorance of the issue. It is well known that lap times will fall off with these tires regardless of driver. They are designed to. Read that a few times, let it sink in. The tires are designed to rapidly degrade to force more pits because Bernie wants this. You claim it's a driver skill issue, it is not. The clearest way to say it is you are flat out wrong.

It is also no secret that riding in dirty air kills the tires faster. This only serves to help the front runner even more.

So again, explain how this is a driver skill issue. Tell me how pirelli actually doesn't know that their tires won't make less than 50% of most races in the event that they get a driver as skilled as say...you.

[pHILSANITY07]

I want to say that it boils down to the driver, but it doesn't help to be on a great team. Yes Sebastian Vettel is going to win his 4th straight title, but he also has Adrian Newey. IMO I think Fernando Alonso is a better driver, just doesn't have the car like Vettel.

BTW I'm not touching the tire discussion. I think its skill from the driver to save his tires and not to wear them out, but also maybe the downforce and the areo on the car as well. But that's coming from someone who watches Formula 1 but doesn't know all the techno stuff in it.

[momo]

Red Bull May Have Invented A Secret New Hybrid Technology

http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-invented-a-secret-new-hybrid-technolo-1442585020?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

i read it. makes sense, could be true. there is no doubt in my mind that vettel's car is not on the same level as Webber's and he clearly has an advantage to the rest of the field. It is probably not expressly illegal as per the rules of F1, but definite grey area. I'm sure there will be an investigation and if it is true, it will be ruled illegal next year to manipulate your hybrid/kers systems.

[Ruffdaddy]

I want to say that it boils down to the driver, but it doesn't help to be on a great team. Yes Sebastian Vettel is going to win his 4th straight title, but he also has Adrian Newey. IMO I think Fernando Alonso is a better driver, just doesn't have the car like Vettel.

BTW I'm not touching the tire discussion. I think its skill from the driver to save his tires and not to wear them out, but also maybe the downforce and the areo on the car as well. But that's coming from someone who watches Formula 1 but doesn't know all the techno stuff in it.

Being a Fernando fan you should know that he just complained about the tires last week for the same reason. It is not possible to drive at 100% and preserve these tires. That's where it comes to tire management strategy. FA was leaving LH a larger gap just to preserve the front right in Korea. This is what I don't like. I'm not saying a driver can't preserve a tire, I'm saying a driver can't preserve a tire and run to the full speed capabilities of the car/driver combo.

There is no doubt in my mind that RB has done something technically that is outside the box. Especially after Sebs comments. Whether its technicaly traction control or something further out there remains to be seen. His comments about TC in Korea were spoken sarcastically despite the articles presentation of the quote. As an engineer, this type of outside the box thinking is why I love the sport. Designers can make or break a team. Otherwise, this would be GP2, and all cars would be uniform.

[aggie97]

Ruff, seriously, quit letting the whining and complaining from a bunch of primadonas influence what you THINK you know. If the tires were made of a compound to last the entire race, the cars would be 20 seconds slower...equals no fun. If the engineers made a tire so sticky that the driver didn't have to worry about the, front wing losing downforce behind another car, the tires would last 3 laps at best. F1 drivers/teams want IDEAL situations so they can go "flatout". What the rules have to do is make it "fair" and interesting enough to keep the fans engaged. No fans equals no money equals no point in racing. Race teams will always complain about something because they NEVER feel they are getting their way...even when they get what they want! LOL!

And no, I haven't driven an F1 car, but the science behind testing/tuning a race car, any race car, is the same. I've tested different drivelines, different springs/shocks, different tires and different compounds of the same tire. I have also driven on terrible tires which have to be managed throughout a stint. I've even complained how the rules are unfair to me.... but I am telling you, driver skill and car prep by the team wins races. They all run on the same tires, who deals with it better wins. He who makes the best combination of compromises wins.

And for the record, Vettel is NOT the best driver in the current field. He might be 5th on my list of current drivers....possibly on par with Grojean. He does have the best team/car though.

[momo]

Son of the bitch.

[pHILSANITY07]

Son of the bitch.

Let me guess, vettel won again.

[momo]

Let me guess, vettel won again.

Yup. My comment was more related to RBR's tire strategy for Mark Webber which cost him the race. The race itself was good.

[Ruffdaddy]

Pretty exciting race, granted the outcome was as expected. I'm surprised Webber had so much trouble getting around Romain. I don't know that the tire strategy either way would have made enough of a difference...but it would have been nice to see him try a 2 stop. At least there were no failures.

It was also pretty neat to see Renault get some recognition. You can tell they've been itching for it, even before Prost made his comments.

I wonder if there will be any fallout for Massa after disobeying team orders. I can only imagine he's starting to worry about his future in F1 more and more.

Ruff, seriously, quit letting the whining and complaining from a bunch of primadonas influence what you THINK you know. If the tires were made of a compound to last the entire race, the cars would be 20 seconds slower...equals no fun. If the engineers made a tire so sticky that the driver didn't have to worry about the, front wing losing downforce behind another car, the tires would last 3 laps at best. F1 drivers/teams want IDEAL situations so they can go "flatout". What the rules have to do is make it "fair" and interesting enough to keep the fans engaged. No fans equals no money equals no point in racing. Race teams will always complain about something because they NEVER feel they are getting their way...even when they get what they want! LOL!

And no, I haven't driven an F1 car, but the science behind testing/tuning a race car, any race car, is the same. I've tested different drivelines, different springs/shocks, different tires and different compounds of the same tire. I have also driven on terrible tires which have to be managed throughout a stint. I've even complained how the rules are unfair to me.... but I am telling you, driver skill and car prep by the team wins races. They all run on the same tires, who deals with it better wins. He who makes the best combination of compromises wins.

And for the record, Vettel is NOT the best driver in the current field. He might be 5th on my list of current drivers....possibly on par with Grojean. He does have the best team/car though.

I'm not debating what it takes to win. I'm talking about the race action. Your wonderfully obvious insight about what it takes to win is good and all, but it does nothing for the position battles. Like I said...I don't like to see drivers having to give a few seconds gap to the driver in front just to save tires. I enjoy aggressive racing. I also don't like that a driver has to burn up a set of tires if they want to get around someone. This only favors the front runner. I want to see drivers pushing the car and their driving ability...not saving tires. I don't care about lap times, so sacrificing a few seconds for good racing is no problem. It is a race after all, not time trials.

And I'm not listening to just drivers...this is a very well known and very obvious fact. I would guess that 80% of radio traffic is something along the lines of "leave a gap, save the tires", or "we gotta try to squeeze X laps out of these tires" forcing drivers to drive at 90%.

I know you think your weekend racing makes you a qualified expert, and it's good that you have some level of understanding...but if you seriously think your opinion should hold more weight than the worlds best drivers, designers, mechanics, commentators, and everyone else involved...you're crazy.

Debating the best driver is even more of an opinionated issue than the tire debate...so there's no sense in going there.

[01vnms4v]

great racing, and glad hamilton retired early.

[Ruffdaddy]

If anyone is still looking to buy tickets, they're pretty cheap on Living Social. I had been holding out for a while because I figured Vettel would take it early and drop ticket prices...looks like waiting payed off a bit. I'm sure they could drop even more after Sunday, but maybe the race for second in the constructors will entice enough people to keep buying tickets.

[momo]

i'm going to wind up have 2-4 extra general admin weekend tickets plus a parking pass since i bought grandstand. i was looking for face value but will sell for living social's price.

should have them next week.

[Slowhand]

i'm going to wind up have 2-4 extra general admin weekend tickets plus a parking pass since i bought grandstand. i was looking for face value but will sell for living social's price.

should have them next week.

I might take two of those off your hands.

[momo]

Cool. Just let me know.



Indian GP:
Well that went about as expected: Webber retires... oh yea and that other guy won.
Just once I wish those two could have a reversal of fortune.