UT @ K State

[Vertnut]

Thanks for nothin, Teasips.

And you're welcome.

[juiceweezl]

Saw the end of this from the Christmas party at FnH, and as bad as I hate losing, I hope you are correct on Mack.

So I'm tired of hearing everyone say fire Mack Brown. For what reasons? Because they went 8-4? Look at some facts and numbers and be reasonable for a minute.

For a 6 year stretch, UT had 2 of the best QB's in the nation with VY and Colt McCoy. They won a national title and played for another (that I think they win if Colt doesn't get hurt). It wasn't but just a few years ago that Mack had the longest streak of consecutive 10 win seasons in the nation.

What's the major piece missing from this year's team? It's a QB, right? Why is that? According to most people, it's a failure to recruit. Anyone remember a kid named Garrett Gilbert? He was only the #1 ranked QB in the country coming out of high school and sought after by everyone. Guess what. He can't even get on the field now at SMU. They missed on that kid, and it set them back a bunch. David Ash was the 11th ranked QB coming out of high school and by all means should have been the fix. Guess what. He hasn't panned out either. They've missed on 2 QB's that a lot of teams would have missed on if they had taken them.

Now look at all the losses on defense to the NFL. Did you see the stat in last night's game where UT is starting the most true freshmen in the country? Did you hear how UT only had 9 scholarship seniors vs. like 26 or so for K. St.? I honestly thought they played well last night and should have won right up until that debacle in the last 5 minutes or so.

How do you blame a coach for Goodwin's fumble and huge loss in the red zone that led to a missed FG? How do you play a coach because Diggs fumbled the punt after the defense forced a 3 and out? Then Monroe fumbled the kickoff and got crap for a return. At that point, Case with his underpowered arm throws a pick as they're trying for a desperation drive. The game was over before that play even happened. All of those players that F'd up in the 4th are guys that have been pretty solid their careers thus far. Coaches can't be held accountable because a guy fumbles unless he has a fumbling problem and they keep him in.

Do I think it may be time for a change? Possibly, but no one has provided any sound reasons why it's time. The only thing you can point to is the failure for the team to play inspired and up to their true talent level (albeit a very young team) in big games like OU. That's a legitimate one, but saying he went 8-4, lost at K. State, etc. isn't a good reason IMO. I think you see them back to 10+ wins next season with a chance to make a BCS bowl or better next year. I hope we get the chance to see though.

[Vertnut]

Fairly valid points, but you fail to address lack of development of all the "top picks" you mention. It's not enough to recruit the best, unless you fit them into the scheme, and help them reach their full potential. While VY and McCoy were kicking ass, Greg Davis and Mack Brown rested on their laurels. This 8-4 season follows two other fairly dismal "rebuilding" seasons. UT did not play poorly last night, and there's no shame in losing to #6. However, I would not consider this season a "good" one.

[01vnms4v]

Btw go aggies

[BERT]

I guess if your idea of a good season is beating the likes of Baylor, Tech, Kasas and Iowa St, sure this was a good season. If that's up to your standards, you need to change your standards

Mack has two big12 titles in 14seasons. Let me repeat that, TWO big12 titles in FOURTEEN seasons!!!! And it took playing for the national title and having the best QB in the nation to get those two

Then there is OU. A team that Mack never has his own team up to play this game. Even when they win he doesn't have them coming out ready to play. He has 4 of the 5 worst loses ever to OU, including two in a row the past two seasons!

I could be wrong but I think I read where Mack has 14 big12 loses the past 3 seasons. Let that sink in

This is all just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could think of more. I like Mack and had his back all the way until the OU game this year. It's not his fault that the game has passed him by, but it's his fault for holding on too long

The most aggravating thing is, the rumor was that if Texas had won the National Title in '09 he was going to walk away. But they lost and he stayed and Muschamp left. Now we all get to see what he is doing at Florida and that pisses me off

[BERT]

Sorry, 15 conference losses in the past three years

[juiceweezl]

Fairly valid points, but you fail to address lack of development of all the "top picks" you mention. It's not enough to recruit the best, unless you fit them into the scheme, and help them reach their full potential. While VY and McCoy were kicking ass, Greg Davis and Mack Brown rested on their laurels. This 8-4 season follows two other fairly dismal "rebuilding" seasons. UT did not play poorly last night, and there's no shame in losing to #6. However, I would not consider this season a "good" one.

Sometimes it's not a failure to develop -- it's just that the kid isn't that good. Gilbert can't get on the field at SMU right now. He sucks, and he would've sucked anywhere he went. That set the program back. Remember, Snead transferred out too. They're not bad outside of QB, but any shortcomings turn into HUGE flaws if your QB sucks and can't move the ball/score points. At the end of the day, that's what matters. Davis needed to go, and he did. They need a real OC, and that will be an immense help. That's the baffling part -- that they can't go get someone to run their offense -- both from the box with the headset and under center. I fully expect them to win 10+ games next season and be back. If not, then it'll be time for some serious changes. Fix the QB position, and this is a damn good team.

[Vertnut]

Sometimes it's not a failure to develop -- it's just that the kid isn't that good. Gilbert can't get on the field at SMU right now. He sucks, and he would've sucked anywhere he went. That set the program back. Remember, Snead transferred out too. They're not bad outside of QB, but any shortcomings turn into HUGE flaws if your QB sucks and can't move the ball/score points. At the end of the day, that's what matters. Davis needed to go, and he did. They need a real OC, and that will be an immense help. That's the baffling part -- that they can't go get someone to run their offense -- both from the box with the headset and under center. I fully expect them to win 10+ games next season and be back. If not, then it'll be time for some serious changes. Fix the QB position, and this is a damn good team.

You do mean besides the defense that can't seem to tackle, or the D-backs that couldn't cover me? I'm not sure which team you're watching. The UT "D" gave up 575 yds. to OSU, 470 to WV, 670 to OU, then over 600 to Baylor! Those were consecutive games.

[Badass2000GT]

Yeah!!!!!!!! Texas is in the toilet bowl, I mean the Alamo bowl against Oregon St.

[Vertnut]

Yeah!!!!!!!! Texas is in the toilet bowl, I mean the Alamo bowl against Oregon St.

The two good things about that, is it's very close to Austin for the fans that want to go, and they just might win.

[BERT]

Sometimes it's not a failure to develop -- it's just that the kid isn't that good. Gilbert can't get on the field at SMU right now. He sucks, and he would've sucked anywhere he went. That set the program back. Remember, Snead transferred out too. They're not bad outside of QB, but any shortcomings turn into HUGE flaws if your QB sucks and can't move the ball/score points. At the end of the day, that's what matters. Davis needed to go, and he did. They need a real OC, and that will be an immense help. That's the baffling part -- that they can't go get someone to run their offense -- both from the box with the headset and under center. I fully expect them to win 10+ games next season and be back. If not, then it'll be time for some serious changes. Fix the QB position, and this is a damn good team.

If Mack would keep his hand out of the playbook you would see different play calling all game on offense.

[Chas_svo]

Thanks for nothin, Teasips.

You got everything you deserved...dipshit.

[Lone Sailor]

Thanks for nothin, Teasips.

What, you afraid of getting y'alls ass whipped by Aggy?

[geronimo]

Yeah!!!!!!!! Texas is in the toilet bowl, I mean the Alamo bowl against Oregon St.

At least the Horns can "save a tree by eating a beaver"

[stinginstang]

So I'm tired of hearing everyone say fire Mack Brown. For what reasons? Because they went 8-4? Look at some facts and numbers and be reasonable for a minute.

For a 6 year stretch, UT had 2 of the best QB's in the nation with VY and Colt McCoy. They won a national title and played for another (that I think they win if Colt doesn't get hurt). It wasn't but just a few years ago that Mack had the longest streak of consecutive 10 win seasons in the nation.

Mack's decision to abandon the spread offense after the NC game with Alabama in favor of the "power run" has proven disastrous. The state of Texas is loaded with high school kids already running the spread and the Horns had a lot of success with it. AND if your gonna be a power run team don't you need some bad ass o-linemen? They haven't had one drafted in 4 or 5 years.

What's the major piece missing from this year's team? It's a QB, right? Why is that? According to most people, it's a failure to recruit. Anyone remember a kid named Garrett Gilbert? He was only the #1 ranked QB in the country coming out of high school and sought after by everyone. Guess what. He can't even get on the field now at SMU. They missed on that kid, and it set them back a bunch. David Ash was the 11th ranked QB coming out of high school and by all means should have been the fix. Guess what. He hasn't panned out either. They've missed on 2 QB's that a lot of teams would have missed on if they had taken them.

I don't disagree with you here. Case was given a scholarship because of his brother which has further complicated the issue of no depth

Now look at all the losses on defense to the NFL. Did you see the stat in last night's game where UT is starting the most true freshmen in the country? Did you hear how UT only had 9 scholarship seniors vs. like 26 or so for K. St.? I honestly thought they played well last night and should have won right up until that debacle in the last 5 minutes or so.

This seems like more of an argument against Mack. You out-recruit everyone every year. How did they end up here? It can't be they all left for the NFL. TCU is just as young as Texas but they had a major drug scandal and kicked a ton of people off the team.

How do you blame a coach for Goodwin's fumble and huge loss in the red zone that led to a missed FG? How do you play a coach because Diggs fumbled the punt after the defense forced a 3 and out? Then Monroe fumbled the kickoff and got crap for a return. At that point, Case with his underpowered arm throws a pick as they're trying for a desperation drive. The game was over before that play even happened. All of those players that F'd up in the 4th are guys that have been pretty solid their careers thus far. Coaches can't be held accountable because a guy fumbles unless he has a fumbling problem and they keep him in.

I don't blame Mack for that. I blame him for the team being soft.

Do I think it may be time for a change? Possibly, but no one has provided any sound reasons why it's time. The only thing you can point to is the failure for the team to play inspired and up to their true talent level (albeit a very young team) in big games like OU. That's a legitimate one, but saying he went 8-4, lost at K. State, etc. isn't a good reason IMO. I think you see them back to 10+ wins next season with a chance to make a BCS bowl or better next year. I hope we get the chance to see though.

They very well may be a 10 win team next year due to the Big 12 being down.

I don't know who you bring in at this point to replace Mack but with his salary and all the advantages he has, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more from the horns. I'm getting bored watching OU rape them more often than not