Ufc 141

[Zfan]

You're right. Overeem is a punk bitch. In the last 3 years he has won against or destroyed:
Lesnar
Werdum
Rogers
Gary Goodridge
CroCop
Mark Hunt

Lesnar, not what he once was...

Werdum was a joke fight

Rogers....please

CroCop...who hasn't lately

We shall see how easily he beats Jr. I don't think so but one never knows I guess.

[Steve]

Absolutely. Overeem said himself he wanted no part of Lesnar on the ground. Brock was a total mess for that fight. At least 25lbs lighter than before he became sick.

I find that very difficult to believe that Overeem said that. Anyone who listened to the man knows he lacks no confidence and is very, very arrogant when he speaks.

Secondly, Overeem has more wins by way of submission than he does KO. He's also an Abu Dahbi grappling champion which is very high level competition. Lesnar was no threat at all to Overeem in any form.

Lesnar had potential in MMA, but he was brought in the wrong way. He was thrown to the wolves right away based on his name alone, rather than actual experience and record. Wrestling alone is not enough to compete in MMA. Wrestlers are not finishers and are not trained to do so which is why you see so many wrestlers grinding their fights out to decisions because their skills are subpar until those wrestling skills are blended with other martial art skills. Had Lesnar been brought into MMA correctly, given time to train up, fought at lower level competition level for experience, he could have been a quality champion.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Lesnar, not what he once was...

Werdum was a joke fight

Rogers....please

CroCop...who hasn't lately

We shall see how easily he beats Jr. I don't think so but one never knows I guess.

Like I said, you're right. He's a chump. K1 level kickboxer, He destroyed a bunch of dudes to win the 2005 European ADCC trials, etc.

[SS Junk]

I find that very difficult to believe that Overeem said that. Anyone who listened to the man knows he lacks no confidence and is very, very arrogant when he speaks.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Alistair_Overeem_Talks_After_Sending_Brock_Lesnar_?vid=10025670&tid=105

1:36 in he states he did not want to get pinned down if Lesnar was going to "bull rush" him. There was also something immediately after the fight that he said to the effect of wanting to keep it off the ground because of Lesnar being a wrestler.
Don't get me wrong, the shape Lesnar was in with this last fight Overeem would've killed him in every way. I am only saying I think Lesnar would've punished him if he was carrying the same weight and confidence he had before he got sick.

[Steve]

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Alis...025670&tid=105

1:36 in he states he did not want to get pinned down if Lesnar was going to "bull rush" him. There was also something immediately after the fight that he said to the effect of wanting to keep it off the ground because of Lesnar being a wrestler.
Don't get me wrong, the shape Lesnar was in with this last fight Overeem would've killed him in every way. I am only saying I think Lesnar would've punished him if he was carrying the same weight and confidence he had before he got sick.

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. Yes, the thing with wrestlers is getting pinned against the cage and that would suck as Frank Mir found out. The lighter divisions don't have much problem of wall walking up the cage if they get pinned against the cage, but when that happens with a monster in the HW's like Lesnar, it makes for a rough fight.

As I said, I think that if they had given Lesnar some actual, proper training opportunity to work his way up, increase his skill level and getting used to being hit he could have had a real chance for a long career in MMA. But, no they put him in with the big dogs right away to get blasted on. People gave Lesnar such a hard time for "no chin" which is bullshit and unfair to say really.

Of course he didn't like getting hit, no one would at that level with those beasts, especially if one isn't conditioned to getting hit at all. Going from a sport where you don't get hit at all, to getting blasted by huge freaks would be enough to shock anyone. He didn't belong in the UFC and wasn't ready for it.

[DON SVO]

Of course he didn't like getting hit, no one would at that level with those beasts, especially if one isn't conditioned to getting hit at all. Going from a sport where you don't get hit at all, to getting blasted by huge freaks would be enough to shock anyone. He didn't belong in the UFC and wasn't ready for it.

I made mention that when he was training with Randy Couture he needed a padded boxing helmet and for one day, let Randy take real shots at him. He needed to learn how to think while being beat on. I don't feel he ever got any real experience other than back pedalling when he got stuck.

FWIW, he has a great chin. Carwin smashed him repeatedly. He never went out. He still ducks and cowers when he's getting hit though, and it's hard to retaliate or maneuver when your brain is lodged in "RUN" mode.

[Steve]

I made mention that when he was training with Randy Couture he needed a padded boxing helmet and for one day, let Randy take real shots at him. He needed to learn how to think while being beat on. I don't feel he ever got any real experience other than back pedalling when he got stuck.

FWIW, he has a great chin. Carwin smashed him repeatedly. He never went out. He still ducks and cowers when he's getting hit though, and it's hard to retaliate or maneuver when your brain is lodged in "RUN" mode.

Agreed on all points, Don. It's a condition that ALL beginners have to learn to deal with. It's not a physical thing, but rather a mental thing of learning how to deal with your fear of getting hit and gaining the confidence of keeping your head up and eyes on the target. It's something that takes time to learn and can't just step on the mat to think you can deal with it.

Once a person realizes that getting hit isn't as bad as they thought, confidence increases and accuracy increases due to being able to keep their head up/eyes open. I've instructed alot of people on this very thing. The mental block is very strong with beginners. When emotional content is brought into a confrontation is makes a great many people cease up in a altercation because whatever stereotypes they have built up in their own minds (big, muscle, weight difference, scary guy etc) rather than basing it on fact. Most guys, can't throw a punch to save their lives, even the big muscled up scary looking guys. Once someone realizes this, it's not as scary as they thought it was.

[Zfan]

Like I said, you're right. He's a chump. K1 level kickboxer, He destroyed a bunch of dudes to win the 2005 European ADCC trials, etc.

Did I say he was a chump, no but I do not believe he will walk thru the top Heavyweights. Maybe he will but I doubt it. I see Jr. taking him out.

[Steve]

I see Jr. taking him out.

How so?

[SS Junk]

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. Yes, the thing with wrestlers is getting pinned against the cage and that would suck as Frank Mir found out. [

"Punch a bjj black belt in the face and he becomes a brown belt. Punch him again in the face and he becomes a purple belt..."

He still ducks and cowers when he's getting hit though, and it's hard to retaliate or maneuver when your brain is lodged in "RUN" mode.

Not only that, but fought like he was in full rigormortis.

[Steve]

"Punch a bjj black belt in the face and he becomes a brown belt. Punch him again in the face and he becomes a purple belt..."

That statement has always made me laugh cuz it's so true in some cases. lol.

But, you should try rolling with a legit, quality BJJ black belt sometime, it's the most humbling experience you will ever have in your life. You're giving a full effort just trying to survive, forget trying to win, and they are just toying with you. lol.

[clevelandkid]

He is huge, but he looked bigger a couple years back. I seem to remember the ~2008 Overeem nearing the 300lb mark.

Actually, he's getting heavier.

He weighed 224 when he fought Buentello in his SF debut in 2007.

I couldn't find an official weight for Dream / Mirko in mid 08 - but a few posts had him in the 230s.

He was 260 for dynamite 2009.

The Rogers fight on 5-24-10, he weighed in at 253.

The Werdum fight on 6-17, he weighed in at 256.

This fight he weighed in at 263.

He's always looked bigger overseas, but his US weight is steadily climbing.

[robray5.0]

I just watched Cerrone vs Diaz, and Cerrone looked slow and lethargic compared to all the other fights I've watched of his. I can't believe he never once tried to grapple with Diaz. Diaz has good BJJ, but Cerrone is pretty badass on the ground also. Cerrone either cut weight or something. I'm not sure what it was.