POE or similar IP security cameras

[futant]

dude wtf is the deal with these things ?

Why are they so damn expensive , it makes no sense.
I'm trying to begin a quest to price out a 4-8 camera outdoor system.
Some would need to see about 75' in the dark .

Any suggestions on sites to browse or pricing of these things?
IS POE that much more than just standard IP camaras?
are the kits really any cheaper?
I'm in IT, so please no skip on tech details or suggestions

[BajaBob]

They are expensive because the technology is relatively new. Unlike the analog systems that could be pretty much manufactured in house, the newer stuff is typically built in a semiconductor fab and then put into housings at the mfg. Most fab's are very expensive to setup, and typically produce a one large order at a time. Mind you the older CCTV systems are typically analog and have been around for years. The new digital stuff has to house not only the newer more expensive camera components, but the DHCP IP acquiring logic. It adds up, but leaves you with a much more robust setup... HD, web streaming capabilities, better motion detection, etc. But a month ago Woot had a 4 and 16 IP camera setup for 100 and (i think) 300 bucks respectively. All you needed to purchase was the hard drive.

I'd keep an eye out on newegg for some deals, fry's also has a pretty good stock on the floor if you have one nearby.

[futant]

so far POE cameras that looked quality range from 150-450 (easily or more $$$)
ip cameras , similar just slightly cheaper.

so I budgeted about 1000 max hopefully.
to me, i just dont get how i can go buy a gopro camera for 150 and it's much better than some of these (though non POE).
What up with that?

To me, i kind of wanted 720p / 30 frames on all my cameras.
But now I see that seems impossible within that budget.
much less i need an alert system (audio , triggered from motion on them)
, and a DVR (with web based control,etc) . So that would all add to the cost.
So preferably the cameras need to be like 100 bucks to 200max, id say

So should I just lower my expectations ?
any kits to compare to you know of ?

[ceyko]

Curious, are you putting them to a POE switch or injector? Depending on the camera, be sure you buy ports/injectors that support the POE/POE+ that you need.

As a Cisco vendor, I feel ya! It's hard to justify the cost of Cisco cameras. Don't get me wrong, we've never had a customer unhappy with the purchase. They end up loving the cameras and software...etc - just hard to get over sticker shock.

[BajaBob]

You can run an IP camera near 500 yards (cat 5 spec) without a repeater. So right there you have a clear advantage over any other variant. Also, GoPro's suck in low light situations. Even with a light they are terrible, so evening and night time video is practically out of the question. Also, they film at a pretty wide angle, you would never be able to make out say a license plate past 50'.

Buy once cry once situation in my opinion. Albeit the quality you go with will not easily be recouped in the resale of your house. If it were me I would go with a unit that has night recording capabilities and motion detection to save on storage space... Two weeks of recorded HD video takes up quite a bit of space when you are on vacation.

I would lower your expectation on frame rate, but not quality. 720 is a great resolution, but you can get away with 5 fps to catch an intruder, space is the name of the game, and frame rate kills storage.

[ceyko]

BajaBob, which cameras support 500 yards? Cat 5 spec is 100 meters.

[BajaBob]

BajaBob, which cameras support 500 yards? Cat 5 spec is 100 meters.

That's what is was. I knew it was long just couldn't remember.

[ceyko]

That's what is was. I knew it was long just couldn't remember.

Yeah, that's the spec. I've had customers insist or 150-200 for say APs or phones. No noticeable problems. I'm sure if we dug into it hard we'd see performance issues, but from an interface perspective and end user experience - nada. Powered fine and enough throughput for everything to work. Although, there was no way we were going to support it.

[futant]

well if i did go with POE , i would just run the switch vs. screwing with the injectors.

ok well the rest of the info posted i pretty much agree with. I guess I m just aggrevated because other technolgy products seem to be moving at a more reasonable speed (vs. cost).

[BajaBob]

well if i did go with POE , i would just run the switch vs. screwing with the injectors.

ok well the rest of the info posted i pretty much agree with. I guess I m just aggrevated because other technolgy products seem to be moving at a more reasonable speed (vs. cost).

It's a niche market.

[ceyko]

Yup, very few people are interested in physical security.

[futant]

Yup, very few people are interested in physical security.

shit im getting serious.
im thinking POE cameras all on 100 yards leads , no matter where they end up mounted.

Why ? why the hell not ? if SHTF , you can remount them even further out, like say outside of fence vs. inside .

hell id build a drone someday !

[ceyko]

Well, if you start doing that sort of thing and willy-nilly putting them places - may as well get a whole lot of extra conduit - to avoid tampering/accidental cuts. Also, I'd silicon (even if sealed) the part where the RJ-45 connector connects to the cat5e cable.

Also, watch angles. Cameras can be taken out quickly and easily.

[BajaBob]

Well, if you start doing that sort of thing and willy-nilly putting them places - may as well get a whole lot of extra conduit - to avoid tampering/accidental cuts. Also, I'd silicon (even if sealed) the part where the RJ-45 connector connects to the cat5e cable.

Also, watch angles. Cameras can be taken out quickly and easily.

While I agree with this, in a SHTF situation you won't have power, and if you do its going to attract attention anyways (genset). I still think IP is the way to go, but as a last line of defense and to record intruders for defense after you shoot them.

[ceyko]

hehehe, we probably should not go down this rabbit hole. You're correct depending on what happens. Either way, with both systems....SOL. IP based anything these days IS the way to go. Just be sure to buy reliable POE switches.